Henckels from the Kentucky show

J.A. Henckels is a Solingen, Germany based knife manufacturer that dates back to 1731. The company's Zwilling (twin) logo is known to be one of the oldest trademarks in the world. Throughout the company's history, it has made some of the world's finest pocket knives, kitchen knives, scissors & flatwear. In 1960 Henckels ceased their pocket knife production and started having other companies make knives for them on contract. Boker has been one of the main producers of more recent Henckels products.
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outkast
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Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by outkast » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:18 pm

Add 3 new Henckels to the collection from the Kentucky show. My buddy had a folder full of them a lot of small and medium 3 blade whittlers but I just couldn't bite the bullet on them all. Although he did let me cherry pick the best I think. Aide from the 3 big 4 blade congress. I got the Jumbo whittler, Sailors knife and Bartender knife.
Henckel Whittler 1.jpg
Henckel Whittler 2.jpg
Henckel Whittler 4.jpg
Henckel Whittler 5.jpg
Henckel Sailor 1.jpg
Henckel Sailor 2.jpg
Henckel Metal Bartender 1.jpg
Henckel Metal Bartender 2.jpg

kootenay joe
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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by kootenay joe » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Nice ones 'ok'.
As you likely know Henckels stopped making folding knives in 1960, all folding knives since then, marked "Henckels" were made by other manufacturers.
So, is your 813 Serpentine Whittler a Henckels made knife ?
Older Henckels do not have pattern numbers.
Did pattern numbers appear before or after contracting out ? I don't know and have never met anyone who did.
I think that in the first few years of contracting out Henckels had the contractor make Henckels patterns. Then at some point the Henckels branded folding knives became the same patterns as those of the contracting manufacturer.
I have Henckels knives of the same pattern, some without a pattern # and others with the pattern number, and you can see the no pattern # knife is of slightly heftier construction. When you get to the Henckels branded knives that are not the old Henckels patterns, then you have a knife that is the same as any other folding knife. The Henckels 'beef' has become tofu.
Your 813 is a Henckels pattern. The stag is Henckels stag. The master blade is from thicker stock, another Henckels sign.
Most likely it was Henckels made but it could also be from the early contracting out days with Henckels either hafting the knives or sending their stag to the manufacturing company.
I am away from my knives and Henckels catalogs but i will check to see if i have the same knife but without "813" marking.
I have sold quite a few of my Henckels and am unsure if i still have this Serpentine Whittler.
Thanks for posting these. I hope others will comment on these knives and perhaps on my conjectures.
kj

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outkast
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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by outkast » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:32 pm

Very good informative info, I have actually never really read into it other than the tang stamps. Most Henckels searches always lean towards their kitchen cutlery. I have searched a bit since your reply and what I found was that like you said J.A. Henckels stopped producing their own pocket knives in the 60's. I read where they contracted Boker to make them, J.A. Henckels made by Henckels will say Solingen on the tang, Boker made say Germany. As for having a pattern number or not I really have no idea. I also saw that throughout time Henckels has been involved with more and more companies in multiple countries. Hence making them more somewhat of mutt knife but still none the less probably one of the top Kitchen knives you can purchase today.

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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by kootenay joe » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:44 pm

Quote: "J.A. Henckels made by Henckels will say Solingen on the tang, Boker made say Germany."
I am not sure if this is correct. I think more likely knives marked "Germany" are for export as many countries require imported items to be marked with country of origin. Knives marked "Solingen" are likely for the domestic market.
kj

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outkast
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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by outkast » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:55 pm

You could be correct as I did take that quote from another forum

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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by kootenay joe » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:20 pm

"I did take that quote from another forum"
Yes i have seen it before as well.
The internet is a great tool for us knife collectors. The downside is the propagation of incorrect information. People often post like they are thinking aloud. Someone else reads it and mistakes conjecture as fact and repeats it in some other post. Then the incorrect info is in 2 places and it grows from there. I try to specify what is conjecture on my part.
kj

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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by peanut740 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:02 pm

Outcast,I will venture a guess that you got your knives from Robert.I was with him when he got that roll a couple months ago and I got 1 knives out of it.It is pattern 190 Premium Stock Knife with stag handles.The back side is a dark red color.
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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by kootenay joe » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:55 am

I have the same stag stockman, stag looks very similar to yours. This is one of the ones i cannot tell if it is a Henckels made knife or an early contract knife.
kj

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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by outkast » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:04 am

peanut740 wrote:Outcast,I will venture a guess that you got your knives from Robert.I was with him when he got that roll a couple months ago and I got 1 knives out of it.It is pattern 190 Premium Stock Knife with stag handles.The back side is a dark red color.
Yes I did get it from Robert. I always look forward to seeing him and James Henry at the shows. Those Henckels did all look good in that folder but I really didn't need them all.

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Re: Henckels from the Kentucky show

Post by kootenay joe » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:59 am

I have an old Henckels catalog. It shows full size images of the folding knives.
--- TEXT REMOVED HERE BECAUSE IT WAS WRONG ---
The "Premium Stock Knife" is 4" and "No. 190 St" in the catalog. The swage on the master goes all the way to proximal end of the long pull.
The one shown above has the swage ending at the distal end of the long pull.
I think this stock knife might be an early contract knife, not a Henckels made knife.
Henckels is known for never making any changes to a pattern no matter how many years the pattern was made. This makes it impossible to date a Henckels made knife, other than to say pre 1960. It does however allow one to differentiate a Henckels made knife from the early contract knives which are very close copies of the originals.
Please note: i am not an expert on Henckels knives. I have never come across anyone who has in-depth knowledge of these knives. I do have over 100 Henckels knives and have been collecting them for many years and have 2 large Henckels catalogs (1924 & ?? ). It is on this that i base my opinions. Opinions, not necessarily facts.
kj

EDIT: sorry, my mistake, major correction needed: the Whittler is an 813 (not 307) & is 3 7/8". I'm adding a catalog picture showing that OP knife IS CORRECT for this pattern; i.e. it is a Henckels made knife. I have 2 examples of this pattern that appear the same except that one is marked "813".
So, when did Henckels knives first get marked with pattern numbers ? This is a key question in Henckels collecting. The older knives have no pattern numbers. Were pattern numbers added before contracting out began in 1960 ? Pattern numbers are on early contract knives so was this when it started ?
I have 2 "premium Stock Knife". One has the long swage as shown in the catalog and no pattern number and the other has the shorter swage as in example shown above and has "190" on master back tang. Is the "190" an early contract knife ?
I think it could be, but i don't know.
kj
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