Curious Henckels

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Sharpnshinyknives
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Curious Henckels

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

I was searching eBay for Henckels this morning and came across this nice looking stag canoe. The stag is perfect front and back. The seller does not mention any buffing or repairs to this knife but I’m pretty sure that, from the close up photo, this knife has been buffed. My questions are, does this look buffed to anyone else? If buffed, then did some one etch the main blade with the words “hand forged” after the buffing? Does the etching “hand forged” look odd to anyone else? What is the age of this knife? And how would this have such great stag if it was old and in bad shape with buffed blades? Other than being reworked? Very curious about this one. Here is the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-GERMAN ... 0667.m2042.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by Eye Brand Man »

Looks original 1970's vintage to me. If buffed the etch would be gone. And I highly doubt it was re etched. This is a common font for German etches. Most German knives had good stag up into the 1990's. JMHO.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by tallguy606 »

That canoe looks exactly like a Boker to me. I have a Henckels trapper that is identical in every way to a Boker trapper. I think Boker made all the more recent Henckels knives, but don't know for sure. Read the info under the Henckels for sale forum on this site.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

I know Boker made Knives for Henckels. It’s interesting that he has an A.G. Russell stag canoe from Germany that looks identical to this. Do you guys not see that rough surface under the shiny on the close up in the second photo? That looks like it’s been buffed plus all those marks on the tang that go in a different direction than it would be marked from opening and closing. On other photos you can see rough under the shiny in other locations also.
It’s hard sometimes to tell without seeing it up close in person, that’s why I am asking. I like this a lot if it’s not been buffed and may bid on it.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by Jeffinn »

To me it looks like there was some pitting on the blade between the word Forged and the blade tang.
On the EBay pics listed with the item there appears to be a significant gap between the pin heads and the stag;
A5275C69-CB53-489F-A92D-916CCBA75F4D.jpeg
A5275C69-CB53-489F-A92D-916CCBA75F4D.jpeg (54.09 KiB) Viewed 4487 times
I know absolutely nothing about these knives, but the pin in that photo doesn’t look like it was properly spun (or peened). I wouldn’t expect to see those types of gaps in a factory knife. It just seems a little “wonky”.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Sharpnshinyknives
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

Jeffinn wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:08 am To me it looks like there was some pitting on the blade between the word Forged and the blade tang.
On the EBay pics listed with the item there appears to be a significant gap between the pin heads and the stag;
A5275C69-CB53-489F-A92D-916CCBA75F4D.jpeg
I know absolutely nothing about these knives, but the pin in that photo doesn’t look like it was properly spun (or peeled). I wouldn’t expect to see those types of gaps in a factory knife. It just seems a little “wonky”.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, I noticed those pins too and that made me think it had been rehandled as well. Whoever did it has done a great job of picking nice stag for these. The A.G. Russell he is also offering has those same looking pins on it as well and the stag looks terrific too.
I worries me that he says these are mint and I don’t think they are.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by kootenay joe »

This knife is all original, made by Boker for Henckels some time between about 1970-2000. It is common for handle pins to be proud on German made stag handled knives.
Very good looking knife, about the best i have seen of these 'Henckels' with the "Hand Forged' etch.
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Re: Curious Henckels

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tallguy606 wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:44 am That canoe looks exactly like a Boker to me. I have a Henckels trapper that is identical in every way to a Boker trapper. I think Boker made all the more recent Henckels knives, but don't know for sure. Read the info under the Henckels for sale forum on this site.
Henckels stopped making pocket knives in 1960. I got this information in the 1980s from John Allison, my Henckels sales rep. On a trip to Solingen for a sales meeting he was asked by the people with Henckels if he would consider repairing Henckels pocket knives here in the US and charge a reasonable fee to do so? They then took him to a room full of parts for Henckel pocket knives and told him he could have as many of the parts as he wanted and they would ship them to him free of charge. They explained that they had sold a lot of knives in America and had a lot of faithful customers here; they wanted someone would provide repair services to their customers in the US.

John told me he could only take a portion part of the parts because his garage wasn't big enough to hold them all. The parts they send him were blades, frames, bolsters, liners, handle material, pins everything one would need to make a pocket knife.
They sent him a lot of handle materials that were not longer even used in the industry, such as elephant ivory and tortoiseshell. He had lots of stag, wood and jigged bone as well as some celluloid I believe.
He had made a nice little two blade jack from parts for his EDC, he used tortoiseshell for the handles which has a very unique almost warm feel to it. It was quite a magnificent little knife.

John told me that it was primarily Boker who made pocket knives for Henckels after 1960.
That may have changed in the last 30 years, but the ones I have seen certainly appear to be from the Boker factory.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

orvet wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:23 am
tallguy606 wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:44 am That canoe looks exactly like a Boker to me. I have a Henckels trapper that is identical in every way to a Boker trapper. I think Boker made all the more recent Henckels knives, but don't know for sure. Read the info under the Henckels for sale forum on this site.
Henckels stopped making pocket knives in 1960. I got this information in the 1980s from John Allison, my Henckels sales rep. On a trip to Solingen for a sales meeting he was asked by the people with Henckels if he would consider repairing Henckels pocket knives here in the US and charge a reasonable fee to do so? They then took him to a room full of parts for Henckel pocket knives and told him he could have as many of the parts as he wanted and they would ship them to him free of charge. They explained that they had sold a lot of knives in America and had a lot of faithful customers here; they wanted someone would provide repair services to their customers in the US.

John told me he could only take a portion part of the parts because his garage wasn't big enough to hold them all. The parts they send him were blades, frames, bolsters, liners, handle material, pins everything one would need to make a pocket knife.
They sent him a lot of handle materials that were not longer even used in the industry, such as elephant ivory and tortoiseshell. He had lots of stag, wood and jigged bone as well as some celluloid I believe.
He had made a nice little two blade jack from parts for his EDC, he used tortoiseshell for the handles which has a very unique almost warm feel to it. It was quite a magnificent little knife.

John told me that it was primarily Boker who made pocket knives for Henckels after 1960.
That may have changed in the last 30 years, but the ones I have seen certainly appear to be from the Boker factory.
Interesting Dale. Do you think this knife in the OP could be one of those parts knives?
Thanks for the info.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by orvet »

Sharpnshinyknives wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:11 pm
Interesting Dale. Do you think this knife in the OP could be one of those parts knives?
Thanks for the info.

No, I highly doubt that.
In the first place that knife does not look like a pre-1960 Henckels. The stag is nice but not like the old Henckels stag that I have seen. About 10 years ago I did some knife work for a gentleman who gave me some Henckels stag as part of the payment. I asked him how he came by the stag and he said it came through a deal brokered by Bernard Levine. Next time I saw Bernard at our club I asked him about it and if it came from John Allison? He said, "Why yes it did." I explained to him how I knew John.

Secondly, the knife is a dead ringer for a Boker, as we have heard earlier in this thread.

Lastly, I don't think John is into doing production work.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by kootenay joe »

Henckels stopped making their own folding knives in 1960.
By about 1970 ?? Henckels branded knives were the same pattern as those of the manufacturer (mostly or all ?) Boker.
But in the period immediately following 1960, the knives branded Henckels are still old Henckels' patterns and may still have Henckels distinct stag or jigged bone. This indicates that Henckels gave Boker the knife parts and handle material to assemble into knives.
What about the blades were they also old Henckels stock ? Maybe but often the stock on the early Henckels contract knives is not quite as stout as on the same pattern from before 1960.
To a collector it is the Henckels made knives that are valuable. So, how can you tell if a knife branded Henckels and of a known Henckels pattern, was made by Henckels or is an early contract knife ?
Older Henckels made knives were not marked with a pattern number. The early contract knives are marked with the correct Henckels pattern number. (Correct = as shown in old Henckels catalog).
The question is: did Henckels start marking pattern numbers in the years just before 1960 ? Or, are all pattern number marked Henckels contract knives ?
And thick blade stock is usually a Henckels made blade.
Note: there is no book i know of that discusses any of this. Except for the date 1960, the rest of what i have posted here is my own conjecture based on buying many Henckels knives and having at least 1,000 pages of old Henckels catalogs.
kj
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

Thank you for all the information, it’s very helpful. What you are saying about Henckel’s providing the handle materials makes sense to me as I have noticed that the handles on many of the Boker made Henckels are different and, without offending anyone, better than what Boker uses on most of their knives. Now I can account for why there is a difference.
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Re: Curious Henckels

Post by Colonel26 »

I can add nothing to what has been said. But I will say it looks good to me, that is to say from the older solingen knives I’ve had I see nothing wrong with it. It’s a real looker.
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