Northwoods Big Bay

The Northwoods Knife brand name originated in Gladstone, Michigan when a man named Dave Shirley adopted it as his knife company's name in 2004. Dave was well known for collaborating with popular knife companies to have knives made to his specifications for resale well before 2004 & beyond. KnivesShipFree bought Northwoods from Dave & has continued to team up with respected makers to produce knives marked with the Northwoods brand name.
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m0nk
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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby m0nk » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:48 pm

gsmith7158 wrote:Thanks for that info Lee! The mammoth was $229 . Giraffe was $189. Don't know about the micarta.



Doh! ::dang:: At that price I would have gone full cave man and killed me a mammoth and taken it home!! Probably for the best. I need to keep my eye on my big prize... I'm in touch with a maker who's gonna build me a custom knife this summer. KSF is doing their best to drain my custom knife money and ruin my plans!

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby gsmith7158 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:44 pm

robbobus wrote:Screenshot_2018-03-13-15-04-41-1.png

I will call this one a bareheaded giraffe boned jack knife. I think it looks fantastic. With the longer bolster a shield in the handle may have looked odd. It will be interesting to compare with the Little Bay side by side. I was slow on the mammoth I wanted. The #2 mammoth was gorgeous crackle mammoth of unquestionable beauty. I watched after checkout, 16:08 and they were all spoken for. Sorry KJ, If I had saw your post I would have grabbed one for ya.


Robbobus I don't know how in the world you had time to save pictures in that mad scramble. I felt a little dizzy and had to lay down afterwards ::facepalm::
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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby gsmith7158 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:40 pm

Well the scalpers already have these listed on the bay. They've tripled the price of the micarta and more than doubled the price of the mammoth and the giraffe bone. ::td:: ::td::
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Greg

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby kootenay joe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:38 am

I cancelled my appointment to try for this Northwoods. I was there the very second the knives showed up. I was already logged into PP. Wanted mammoth so went directly to last page of mammoth (3 or 4 pages, i did not even look), saw a nice one , into cart, checkout with PP, Pay with PP balance, yes, pay: --- "The inventory quantity is below what you ordered" i.e. sold in the 3 seconds i took to get through PP.
So, try again, Giraffe this time, find a nice one in 2 seconds, into cart, over to PP, hit "Pay" ---- "the inventory quantity is below what you ordered".
Wow, bad luck, back for a third try, quick giraffe grab, to PP pay, same thing.
I felt a deep disappointment and admitted to myself i did not want to be disappointed again. I shut my computer off and went outside.
Right now there are 4 Northwoods Big Bay on ebay with high BIN prices.
Stock traders are moving close to stock exchanges so that their ultra high speed computers and internet can get a trade order in a NANO-second ahead of other traders. Yes, one billionth of a second counts, which is why they are moving close to the stock exchange computers, to save nanoseconds.
I live where 'hi speed' internet is not the same as urban centers' high speed. It is slower. I think in a competitive situation the internet always gives precedent to the highest speed message even if there is a slower speed message being processed.
With the high volume of inbound messages involved in a Northwoods release, i believe it is not possible for those of us with slower internet to win.
I will not participate in this demeaning process again and really i will not be missing much. Recent Northwoods are rather 'ho hum' compared with the lovely knives of 6 or 7 years ago. Remember the "Conductor", #33 pattern ? marvelous knife, a far more exquisite knife than any recent Northwoods.
kj

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby gsmith7158 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:53 am

Roland I have to agree with you on the speed issue. In the Fayette Jack release I was in rural North Carolina, three attempts on my phone at knives and no luck. Today at home on my desktop I missed the mammoth then went well into the giraffes and finally scored on that one . I tried on two more but they were gone. I don't seem to get the posting of the knives until about 2 minutes after 4pm. Does any one else have that issue?
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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby kootenay joe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:37 am

It was 1300 hrs here in B.C. and the knives showed up 2 seconds after my computer showed 1300 hrs, so there was no delay.
kj

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby robbobus » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:06 am

gsmith7158 wrote:
robbobus wrote:Screenshot_2018-03-13-15-04-41-1.png


Robbobus I don't know how in the world you had time to save pictures in that mad scramble. I felt a little dizzy and had to lay down afterwards ::facepalm::


After I checked out I just hit the browser back button and I got back to my pics. Easy peasy. Any higher tech and I am out. KSF will send pics if you ask as well.

I buy alot more than sell so I usually use my Mastercard when shopping at KSF. I am logged in with my address etc, my phone knows my cc number, I punch in my 3 dig security code and have had very good success. The one time I had and tried use a PayPal balance, the extra lag time equalled no knife.


Personally, I think Derek and GEC are consistently producing unique to the market, interesting and well made knives. If I did not already have alot of users, any one of the Lincoln, Esky, Delta, Michigan, Broadway, Big Bay, Hawthorne could very happily reside in my left front pocket. I do enjoy these first world dilemnas.

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby m0nk » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:34 am

I'm surprised that nobody is talking about the high likelihood that people are using shopping bots to automate the selection and checkout process on these NW releases. Anytime there's money to be made scalpers will figure out ways to game the system, and in this case it's fast and good money. I haven't heard anything about KSF taking any anti-bot measures in their cart system. Using bots has been common practice in the sneaker enthusiast community for a long time for limited runs like Yeezys and Jordans. People buy these bots and it doesn't seem to take a lot of technical sophistication to operate them. Really any scripting language capable of emulating a browser and pressing buttons can be used to code a bot.

If you really want a NW knife and you don't want to go to the trouble and expense of using a bot, then at least don't use paypal because it slows down the checkout process too much. People on this forum that are copping these Northwoods seem to be using a credit card instead of paypal. Also going for the micartas seems to give you better odds since its a countdown rather than a race condition of multiple buyers going after the same item as with the giraffe/camel/mammoth individual knives.

Some of the automated techniques might include: Scraping the site ahead of time to get the product ID links and possibly even pictures before the "add to cart" buttons appear at go-time. These links can then be loaded into the bot so it's primed to fire as soon as the purchasing buttons come up. Serious scalpers are no doubt using multiple accounts to log in simultaneously as several buyers, and then using a multithreaded bot that can add multiple items to the cart and attempt many purchase attempts at once. And like others, I'm on a not so fast connection, so if I were serious I'd rent a cheap cloud server from Amazon or someplace like that and launch my purchasing bot from there. Welcome to the wonderful world of online product scrambles for limited run items that fetch a high pricetag on the "secondary" market! As long as the scalping market is good, this trend will only continue to get worse. The only way this will slow down is if GEC increases their production or people stop buying from scalpers. ::td:: ::td::

Lee

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby kootenay joe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:13 am

Lee, thanks for the explanations in your post. What does this mean: "Scraping the site ahead of time to get the product ID links" ? I do not know what it is to "scrape" the site but it seems to imply that the info on these knives can be had before the release time ?
Are you sure that checkout with PP when already logged in to PP is slower than going through the multi-step KSF check out ?
One possible solution is to have all who want a knife submit an 'entry' with their email and mailing address and handle choices (1, 2 and 3rd choice) and then the KSF computer randomly selects the winners. The downside would be that the winners would not be able to select which mammoth or giraffe handle they would receive. This would not matter for the other handle materials.
kj

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby m0nk » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:43 am

kootenay joe wrote:Lee, thanks for the explanations in your post. What does this mean: "Scraping the site ahead of time to get the product ID links" ? I do not know what it is to "scrape" the site but it seems to imply that the info on these knives can be had before the release time ?
Are you sure that checkout with PP when already logged in to PP is slower than going through the multi-step KSF check out ?


KJ, no I'm not sure about the PP speed, but it's my suspicion because you get redirected to the PP site and sometimes that takes an arbitrary amount of time. When I bought my Mudbug I felt like PP was going really slow and I was nervous the whole time. But in that case I was getting a common item not a specific item, and it took an hour and a half to sell out of Mudbugs, so I didn't have anything to worry about. I feel like when I'm entering my CC number (copied and pasted from Notepad or something) I'm in control of the checkout process and with practice one can get fast at it rather than hope that PP is doing me right in that moment.

A web scraper is an automated tool that can grab the entire contents of a website, whether links to all that content is visible or not. For example, if you google images for "71 Bullnose knives ship free" you can see pictures on the KSF site that are there but aren't linked, i.e., you can't find them on the site just by normal browsing. But the google crawler finds them for you. A web scraper does a similar thing but downloads the entire site contents. From there you can browse the contents or parse it with a script looking for whatever you want. I have no idea if KSF uploads their release content ahead of time, but other online vendors sometimes do, and "early links" are a thing in the sneakerhead community. Even if everything suddenly appears at once, it could be possible to automate the process of finding "add to cart" links quickly and press a bunch of them. The bottom line is that a script can fill in a form and click buttons much faster than humanly possible, and do many of these actions at once.

Regarding the careful selection of the particular beautiful bone handle cover that your heart really desires... it seems like people aren't really able to do that now anyway because it's just a mad grabbing, so what difference does it make?

Lee

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby Cletus Awreetus » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:38 pm

hey guys!
Lee's absolutely correct in his suspicion that the buyer is redirected between KSF and paypal sites during their attempt to purchase. as far as bots being involved, there were guys on ebay last night listing multiple Big Bays and upon further investigation had 4-5-6 knives for sale. I don't believe for a minute that's dumb luck nor serendipity.
it took me no less than 10 tries before scoring a giraffe bone.I still don't know for sure which one I'm getting. another thing that screws you is you must remove 'out of stock' items every time you make another attempt at a buy. everything about the process works against the average knife buyer. A group of 3 of us made a pact; text the other 2 guys a thumbs up upon a successful purchase, that way the others would continue to try to score so's nobody'd be left out in the cold. Needless to say, 2 of us were.
-the problem with society today is, no one drinks from the skulls of their dead enemies anymore..-

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby gsmith7158 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:00 pm

Cletus I think if someone texted me a thumbs up during that frenetic feeding frenzy I would most certainly blame them if I didn't get one. ::sotb::
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Greg

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby kootenay joe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:08 pm

I need help to understand this: "Lee's absolutely correct in his suspicion that the buyer is redirected between KSF and paypal sites during their attempt to purchase."
I was logged into both KSF and PP from the beginning. I place knife in cart, hit "pay with PP" and it takes me over to PP but being already logged in it is just 2 'steps': confirm 'use PP balance" and "Ship to this address". Everything is 'filled in'. I just have to click 'yes' twice.
Is this really slower than using the KFS checkout and paying with credit card ?
I have not paid for an item using KSF check out for years but i remember having to enter lots of info to complete, e.g. visa card number , exp. date, 3 digit code. Surely this takes longer than what i describe above for PP ?
My contention is that the internet always grants priority to the fastest speed incoming message. As my high speed is not fast i can be part way through checkout and get 'passed' by a guy behind me but with true hi speed signal, because the internet will hold back my slow signal in favor of his faster one.
The only way a slower signal guy can score is if no other signals come in during the entire transaction; i.e. situations with no competition.
Nanoseconds make a difference in score or loose. I listened to a program about this as it applies to stock market, money market, etc. trading. Trading businesses have spent tens of millions of dollars to get a a few nanoseconds faster. Nano = billionth
kj

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby m0nk » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:25 am

KJ, if PP works fast for you then I'd stick with that. I offered that suggestion based on the fact that using PP introduces yet another variable that is out of the buyer's control. If you're automating your purchase process with a script/bot, then you probably won't use PP, and on some networks PP is very slow. On my work computer the PP site won't display properly (CSS doesn't load!) and takes a long time. Your mileage may vary. Just do what works best for you on your device and network.

I gave a long explanation about bots because the scalpers and serious enthusiasts already know this stuff, and nontechnical knife guys are left wondering, "What just happened?!" after ~500 NW knives sell out in about 8 minutes. It could simply be the case that a couple thousand buyers are swamping the server and some are very fast at making purchases, but that isn't likely considering the earlier example of a single scalper on the bay with several of these knives. How did he do it? I don't know, I wasn't there, but I suspect they're using automated processes, aka, bots. Why does he use a bot? Because he can make a lot of money off buyers willing to pay redunkulous prices on the bay, and economics drive free markets. 'Merica!

This is starting to intrigue me more, and a shopping cart script sounds like an interesting project. If I had a simple javascript bot I'd probably share it with the bros here on aapk because I don't think it's right that genuine enthusiasts are being beaten out by scalpers who might not even care about the knives they're grabbing. :x

Lee

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Re: Northwoods Big Bay

Postby kootenay joe » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Lee, i enjoy reading your posts about the KSF knife 'scramble'. It helps me have some idea of what happens with these new releases.
With the advent of the Digital Age i have been rendered essentially illiterate and now need to rely on others to effectively navigate this vicarious reality. How can 'vicarious' be real ? Because some humans made it so and fooled the rest of the world.
Life before computers & internet was all real. Now reality has been replaced by a digital screen which only gives a vicarious experience. Those who cannot navigate the screen are left behind has-beens.
kj


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