realistic work knife sharpening

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Am curious as to what your reactions might be to the following. I make it a practice to keep a honing steel or chef's steel anywhere I have my knives. In the kitchen obviously, but also in my office and another room that holds most of my knives. Although I often use knives, normally it is for fairly light duties. Perhaps with a blade that gets a lot of challenging work this would not be applicable. But whenever I find a blade that is losing the sharpness I want I give it a few passes with the steel and the improvement is immediate. I realize this is not "sharpening" as such; just a realignment of the micro-teeth of the blade edge. When the day comes when steel has to be removed I use a Speyderco or AG Russell V sharpener.

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Well, I dont personally prefer to use a steel for the following reasons. When I need to touch up a knife between sharpening the edge bevel I use a stone on the microbevel so it will cut off weakened steel rather than bend it back into place like a steel does but the amount of effort put into sharpening the microbevel it is about the same as using a steel. I normally use a coarse or medium stone for this as a more fine stone may only do about the same thing as a steel and just bend the edge back into place rather than grind off the weakened apex because the stone isn't coarse enough to remove enough material to get to fresh steel.

Now let me be clear, I am not saying that steeling isn't a viable option or that you shouldn't do it. It obviously is functional and has a purpose, but I prefer to approach touching up an edge between sharpening in a different way to maximize edge retention.

[Quick Steel]

FRJ you are spot on about not imitating the chefs.Also, In the last couple of years I have seen "steels" being sold with diamond coated rods. This means that the uninformed are going to be quickly diminishing their cutlery if they imitate the rapid fire techniques they see on TV. Coating the steels with abrasives entirely ruins the intended purpose of steels.

[FRJ]

Thank you, Quick Steel.
Back years ago there was probably a steel in most households because their parents had one too and for very good reason.
They worked.

Paul, it's a pleasure to read your posts. You obviously have sharpened knives for some time and you have reasoned your technique to suit your needs. You have a grasp of what's taking place in the sharpening process using stones.

[Colonel26]

I pretty much agree with Paul. I never use a strop. I don't entirely understand them. I think they are better suited for razors.
I must admit, though, that I have stropped an edge on clean cardboard or clean plywood. It can have it's place, but I don't have a strop as an accessory tool.
However, I don't like to use a very coarse grit stone on my knives because they can remove so much from the edge.
My blade edges are usually in pretty decent shape and I can get a fresh start, if needed, with a higher grit stone.
I'm really talking about my kitchen knives here. In my view you needn't go to a high grit stone for kitchen work especially if you are cutting meat. A polished edge can drag in meat. I do have a waterstone that is 8000 grit that I use with certain knives just because I can and feel comfortable with doing what ever I want with knives in terms of edge maintenance.
If I need to develop an edge on a blade, usually a pocket knife, then I will go to a coarse stone.
I stated in another thread some time ago that if all you had was a 8 inch, double grit, carborundum stone you would be well set
but with very few options.
Quick Steel brings up a good point about steels.
A few passes on a steel using thoughtful strokes and angles will bring back an edge very quickly.
Please don't follow the ridicules moves by some professional chefs when they hurriedly strike the steel with their knives.
That is nonsense.

I agree with you on the highly polished edges that seem to be so in vogue today. IMO a knife with a slightly toothy edge cuts better than a highly polished edge. Now my straight razors, yes, but a knife is all together different.

I use steels some, mainly to line up the edge after sharpening. But I agree, those fast wild strokes are counter productive.

I find a course stone followed by a fine, skipping the medium altogether, gives very good results.

[Mumbleypeg]

I pretty much agree with Paul. I never use a strop. I don't entirely understand them. I think they are better suited for razors.
I must admit, though, that I have stropped an edge on clean cardboard or clean plywood. It can have it's place, but I don't have a strop as an accessory tool.
However, I don't like to use a very coarse grit stone on my knives because they can remove so much from the edge.
My blade edges are usually in pretty decent shape and I can get a fresh start, if needed, with a higher grit stone.
I'm really talking about my kitchen knives here. In my view you needn't go to a high grit stone for kitchen work especially if you are cutting meat. A polished edge can drag in meat. I do have a waterstone that is 8000 grit that I use with certain knives just because I can and feel comfortable with doing what ever I want with knives in terms of edge maintenance.
If I need to develop an edge on a blade, usually a pocket knife, then I will go to a coarse stone.
I stated in another thread some time ago that if all you had was a 8 inch, double grit, carborundum stone you would be well set
but with very few options.
Quick Steel brings up a good point about steels.
A few passes on a steel using thoughtful strokes and angles will bring back an edge very quickly.
Please don't follow the ridicules moves by some professional chefs when they hurriedly strike the steel with their knives.
That is nonsense.

I agree with you on the highly polished edges that seem to be so in vogue today. IMO a knife with a slightly toothy edge cuts better than a highly polished edge. Now my straight razors, yes, but a knife is all together different.

I use steels some, mainly to line up the edge after sharpening. But I agree, those fast wild strokes are counter productive.

I find a course stone followed by a fine, skipping the medium altogether, gives very good results.

Excellent advice in these two posts - IMHO should be required reading for everyone who sharpens knives. The idea that a highly polished edge is desirable (or even needed) may be true for a razor, but not for most knives. For most common cutting tasks encountered when using a knife, a toothy edge does in fact cut better. And you can get an edge that is both "toothy" and will shave, if you want it.

But I only tried to actually shave with a pocket knife once.

I typically carry a three-blade stockman, with each blade having a different kind of sharpened edge. To be used for different purposes, depending on what I need to cut. I have used a leather pad, cardboard, newsprint, the top of my boot, and the palm of my hand to put a polished shaving edge on a knife blade, mainly just to see if I could do it (or while sitting around a fire at camp ). But it's not a practice I would spend time doing otherwise.

Ken

[KnifeSlinger#81]

I have a question for those who seem to be opposed to a mirror polished edge, and that is what experiences did you have with mirrored edges that would lead you to your current opinion and if it was something you tested to some degree?

When you sharpen a knife the stone leaves a scratch pattern on the edge, and that scratch pattern determines the direction of your cutting aggression. The finish level of that scratch pattern will also determine the cutting aggression, but also the sharpness. A high level mirror finish can be so much sharper than a toothy edge that it virtually just glides through certain objects where a toothy edge may catch and not cut as smooth. When I say toothy edge, it is indeed a sharp enough edge to easily shave hair and cleanly cut phonebook paper. There are advantages and disadvantages of toothy and mirror edge finishes, and also things one is better suited for than the other. When it comes to edges like the angles, finishes, scratch pattern direction and etcetera there is no one thing that's the best for everything. There's just too many variables in which a cutting tool can be used.

[Colonel26]

I’ll bite, pun intended. Here’s one example I can think of. Pick a tomato out of the garden, take out your pocket knife to cut it, and that mirror polished edge will smash it before it starts cutting. A toothier edge will cut it without smashing it.

Cutting grass strings off hay bales, a mirror polished edge slides on the strings without cutting them. Slicing meat, a mirror polished edge tends to tear and bog down. Breaking down cardboard boxes, a slightly toothier edge tends to slice through them better. Also, imo a slightly toothier edge stays useful longer than a mirror polished edge.

But like I said, for me a slightly toothy edge is a coarse stone followed by a smooth stone and then stropped or slightly steeled to get rid of the burr and line everything up. That’s what works for me.

[Mumbleypeg]

I’ll bite, pun intended. Here’s one example I can think of. Pick a tomato out of the garden, take out your pocket knife to cut it, and that mirror polished edge will smash it before it starts cutting. A toothier edge will cut it without smashing it.

Cutting grass strings off hay bales, a mirror polished edge slides on the strings without cutting them. Slicing meat, a mirror polished edge tends to tear and bog down. Breaking down cardboard boxes, a slightly toothier edge tends to slice through them better. Also, imo a slightly toothier edge stays useful longer than a mirror polished edge.

But like I said, for me a slightly toothy edge is a coarse stone followed by a smooth stone and then stropped or slightly steeled to get rid of the burr and line everything up. That’s what works for me.

Thanks Wade. That sums it up pretty well - good examples of every day cutting tasks that are better served by a blade with a sharp but toothy edge.

Paul, you said it very well, and the same as I was trying to say - different kinds of edges for different tasks. I just find for most things I do, a toothy edge works best. And for me at least it takes less sharpening effort and time time to get there.

Ken

[Quick Steel]

A very good and interesting exchange of viewpoints. Kudos to all.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

I appreciate the feedback guys, it always interests me how other people go about sharpening and the reasons why they do it their way.

Most of the time I sharpen to a shaving toothy edge, specifically I really like to use a 220 grit aluminum oxide stone for most reprofiling work and usually for setting the apex bevel but sometimes I use a little finer grits for the apex. I have a sharpmaker and that works very well for doing apex bevels, in addition to some other options I have. Most of the time when I sharpen average working knives I just want a sharp functional edge as fast as possible, and mirror edges require much more time than that.

For shorter secondary blades is usually where I like a mirror edge as those blades don't get much draw cut because of their short length so push cutting becomes more necessary and push cutting is where a mirror edge usually does quite well, of course the higher level of sharpness a mirror edge provides is quite nice. Now there are a couple of other reasons I do a mirror edge. One is because I'm ocd and usually like to have a fantastically sharp edge on at least one blade of the knife I'm carrying (if it has more than one blade) that I don't really use just so I always have it sharp just in case. The other reason is because sometimes it's just fun to have a really shiny edge, and it can look quite impressive. I really like the aesthetic of a mirror edge on a nicely patinaed blade.