Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Dad taught me to sharpen a knife when I was about 10 or 11 years old. This was around 1969. I'm pretty sure the Edge Pro or systems like that weren't around yet. He gave me the basic idea of how a knife edge was the result of the blade being ground away until a sharp edge was there. He did explain how the lower the angle the better a knife would cut. Believe it or not that's all you really need to know. Create an edge, remove any burrs and start cutting or put the knife in your pocket. That was really about it.
Having said that there's more to it along with mainly a LOT of practice. Especially if you want to learn to free hand sharpen. This is all just my opinion of course.
With Dad's teaching and practice by the time I was in high school I could get any knife sharp enough to shave my arm and amaze my friends. Back then just about every boy in high school carried a pocket knife everywhere.
About 10 or 12 years ago I got into sharpening a knife at a higher level. I use an Edge Pro exclusively for 2-3 years. That is a great sharpening system. With it I learned how to recognize to a certain extent the angle of an edge when someone shows me their knife. Great system. If you own one you have a great setup if you ask me. Or a Wicked Edge. Never used one but the videos are great.
Then just for fun I decided to learn to free hand sharpen at a higher level. Keep in mind, with my set of two Smith stones (medium and fine I think) I could easily shave my arm hair and that's sharp enough for about any pocket knife and a bunch of knife for special uses. With the Edge Pro I was able (after a while) to get a knife sharp enough to whittle a single strand of my own hair. Just in case you don't know what "whittling a hair" means, take a stick and cut into it and notice how the wood curls up. This is done a lot to help start camp fires. Picture doing that to a single strand of hair without cutting all the way through it.
Now I can do that with a set of bench stones. I have DMT extra-course thru extra-fine, Spyderco medium thru ultra-fine and also a complete set of Shapton glass stones (320-16k). If I were to need to get on a plane and go somewhere I'd take my Spyderco medium and fine grit stones and have all I need to maintain my own pocket knives as well as any frined's knife as long as it wasn't super dull.
So if you are just now starting to learn to sharpen a knife and you are on the internet I'm sure you are bombarded with which system or way to sharpen to learn. I have opinions on how to answer this question. That means how to spend your money and use your time learning how to use the tools you buy.
My hands on experience: Childhood; free hand with the same set of stones for about 20 years. Stones I put oil on. The last several years these stones were worn and clogged but I didn't know enough to know that. Then I got a DMT aligner. Great set for getting a very, very sharp knife but the clamp won't hold every knife the same. This single issue prompted me to get the Edge Pro. MUCH better system with much more control. Then on a whim I decided to improve my free hand sharpening skill.
A set of Spyderco stones cost about $150 I think if you include the ultra-fine stone. But, 99% of people don't need that grit for just forget about it and consider a set of Spyderco's under $100. A set of DMT stones will be somewhere in the same ballpark or higher if you want more grits. Personally, if you get Spyderco stones I'd recommend a course DMT for a stone to remove more steel faster for very dull knives. I have Shapton glass stones and love them. However, based just on cost I'd get the DMT or Spyderco stones. Two reasons. 1. Less expecsive (BY A LOT). 2. I use the Spycerco and DMT stones much, much more. Also, the DMT and Spyderco stones don't require any water. Just pull them out, use them and put them back. DON'T FORGET, you need to clean them which takes about 3 minutes with Barkeeper's Friend (or Comet) and a scrub brush.
What I have come to think is with systems that control the angle for you, you can lean them faster and have VERY sharp knives. But when you don't have that system on you and you need to sharpen a knife you may be somewhat lost. But, you can learn to use the systems very fast.
With free hand sharpening, it takes a little longer to learn to control the angle but you can take a stone or two with you anywhere and are always ready. Or you can use the stones that happen to be wherever you happen to be if there are any there.
Keep in mind, when I was 11 years old my Dad taught me to sharpen a knife on one or two stones and I was shaving my arm for as long as I can remember.
Just my thoughts. Take care.
Jack
Having said that there's more to it along with mainly a LOT of practice. Especially if you want to learn to free hand sharpen. This is all just my opinion of course.
With Dad's teaching and practice by the time I was in high school I could get any knife sharp enough to shave my arm and amaze my friends. Back then just about every boy in high school carried a pocket knife everywhere.
About 10 or 12 years ago I got into sharpening a knife at a higher level. I use an Edge Pro exclusively for 2-3 years. That is a great sharpening system. With it I learned how to recognize to a certain extent the angle of an edge when someone shows me their knife. Great system. If you own one you have a great setup if you ask me. Or a Wicked Edge. Never used one but the videos are great.
Then just for fun I decided to learn to free hand sharpen at a higher level. Keep in mind, with my set of two Smith stones (medium and fine I think) I could easily shave my arm hair and that's sharp enough for about any pocket knife and a bunch of knife for special uses. With the Edge Pro I was able (after a while) to get a knife sharp enough to whittle a single strand of my own hair. Just in case you don't know what "whittling a hair" means, take a stick and cut into it and notice how the wood curls up. This is done a lot to help start camp fires. Picture doing that to a single strand of hair without cutting all the way through it.
Now I can do that with a set of bench stones. I have DMT extra-course thru extra-fine, Spyderco medium thru ultra-fine and also a complete set of Shapton glass stones (320-16k). If I were to need to get on a plane and go somewhere I'd take my Spyderco medium and fine grit stones and have all I need to maintain my own pocket knives as well as any frined's knife as long as it wasn't super dull.
So if you are just now starting to learn to sharpen a knife and you are on the internet I'm sure you are bombarded with which system or way to sharpen to learn. I have opinions on how to answer this question. That means how to spend your money and use your time learning how to use the tools you buy.
My hands on experience: Childhood; free hand with the same set of stones for about 20 years. Stones I put oil on. The last several years these stones were worn and clogged but I didn't know enough to know that. Then I got a DMT aligner. Great set for getting a very, very sharp knife but the clamp won't hold every knife the same. This single issue prompted me to get the Edge Pro. MUCH better system with much more control. Then on a whim I decided to improve my free hand sharpening skill.
A set of Spyderco stones cost about $150 I think if you include the ultra-fine stone. But, 99% of people don't need that grit for just forget about it and consider a set of Spyderco's under $100. A set of DMT stones will be somewhere in the same ballpark or higher if you want more grits. Personally, if you get Spyderco stones I'd recommend a course DMT for a stone to remove more steel faster for very dull knives. I have Shapton glass stones and love them. However, based just on cost I'd get the DMT or Spyderco stones. Two reasons. 1. Less expecsive (BY A LOT). 2. I use the Spycerco and DMT stones much, much more. Also, the DMT and Spyderco stones don't require any water. Just pull them out, use them and put them back. DON'T FORGET, you need to clean them which takes about 3 minutes with Barkeeper's Friend (or Comet) and a scrub brush.
What I have come to think is with systems that control the angle for you, you can lean them faster and have VERY sharp knives. But when you don't have that system on you and you need to sharpen a knife you may be somewhat lost. But, you can learn to use the systems very fast.
With free hand sharpening, it takes a little longer to learn to control the angle but you can take a stone or two with you anywhere and are always ready. Or you can use the stones that happen to be wherever you happen to be if there are any there.
Keep in mind, when I was 11 years old my Dad taught me to sharpen a knife on one or two stones and I was shaving my arm for as long as I can remember.
Just my thoughts. Take care.
Jack
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I too learned free hand sharpening & can get by if necessary. However, I just prefer an absolutely perfect scary sharp edge that I can get from the inexpensive Lansky system.
pffffft that's not a knife ......... now THAT'S a knife !! Crocodile Dundee
John
John
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
okay, call me out of the loop on sharpening! But I gotta ask, where in the world does the average layman need a 16,000 grit Shapton water stone? Yes I have watched videos on fine kitchen/restaurant chefs knives and sharpening them, some costing over a $$$grand. If I was manufacturing surgical scalpels maybe. Sometimes we have taken Norton stones to the ultrasonic cleaner to get the debree out of them. I once watched a man sit and sharpen a block plane blade with the scary sharp method. A piece of scrap plate glass with wet or dry paper fastened to it. Well maybe that if I was making very fine furniture with a $500 and up block plane.
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Unless the knife is a secondhand one that needs a lot of work, I've found a hard Arkansas stone, a little one from Case, does most of my everyday sharpening needs.
I have a motley crew of old stones that get the job done. I have a cheap set of diamond stones (like $12 from Harbor Freight) for damaged edges, as well as hatchets and stuff. An old Norton lawnmower stone for damaged edges (the old way), a slightly finer stone for refining that edge, then small hard and soft Arkansas stones. I finish that edge up on a piece of cardboard. Really, though, for beat up edges (or bad factory edges), something that can keep it at the specific angle is absolutely necessary for semi-unskilled people like myself--you can make a mess out of a good knife. I use a Smith's system from the 1980s for that, but am considering getting a Lansky.
I have a motley crew of old stones that get the job done. I have a cheap set of diamond stones (like $12 from Harbor Freight) for damaged edges, as well as hatchets and stuff. An old Norton lawnmower stone for damaged edges (the old way), a slightly finer stone for refining that edge, then small hard and soft Arkansas stones. I finish that edge up on a piece of cardboard. Really, though, for beat up edges (or bad factory edges), something that can keep it at the specific angle is absolutely necessary for semi-unskilled people like myself--you can make a mess out of a good knife. I use a Smith's system from the 1980s for that, but am considering getting a Lansky.
- jerryd6818
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I don't know anything about the Smith's but I can recommend the Lansky.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
- tongueriver
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I am not skilled at manipulating any three-dimensional objects, with the exception of making one-wok meals and digging post holes but I am able to get the kind of toothy edge which I like on hunting and kitchen knives with my EDGE-PRO setup. Smaller knives are harder for me to put in order but I sorta get by with a potpouri of free-hand stones and my EZE-LAP diamond hones which nest inside themselves in a brass casing. Stainless steel blades are the most frustrating to me. I would like to know more about this Lansky system- Is it workable for the smaller blades in pocket knives?
- Mumbleypeg
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
To each his own - whatever you need to get the job done. I was taught free-hand sharpening by my grandfather, when I was around 10 or 12. Once I learned and became proficient I've never had a need for any other "system". However I can see the attraction if you don't already know how to do the job free-hand. I've tried Lanky and several others, even the electric-powered Work-Sharp, mainly out of curiosity. But I never saw the advantage, to me at least, of owning any of them.
I probably have a dozen or so stones of various sizes and grits, but I really only use two of them. With them I can quickly get a sharp but slightly toothy edge that works best for the everyday tasks I encounter. If whittling hair floats your boat, go for it. But for my requirements it would be a waste of time.
Ken
I probably have a dozen or so stones of various sizes and grits, but I really only use two of them. With them I can quickly get a sharp but slightly toothy edge that works best for the everyday tasks I encounter. If whittling hair floats your boat, go for it. But for my requirements it would be a waste of time.
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
- jerryd6818
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Pocket knives are all I do on it and it works for all blades including the pen blades and the small coping blade on a whittler. Is that small enough for you Cal?tongueriver wrote: this Lansky system- Is it workable for the smaller blades in pocket knives?
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
- KnifeSlinger#81
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
There is a thing for the edge pro called the small blade attachment, it helps tremendously with smaller blades and is easy to use. Very small blades like the pen blades on small stockmans, peanuts, pen knives and the like are a little challenging even with the small blade attachment. I usually freehand or use a lansky for those, but with a lansky you may have to grind down the clamp itself (depending on how you clamp the blade in) to get a decent angle because the small blades stick out very little and the stone touches down on the clamp before it hits the edge at lower angles. You can put on a really high angle to remedy this, but then the knife won't cut worth a flip.tongueriver wrote:I am not skilled at manipulating any three-dimensional objects, with the exception of making one-wok meals and digging post holes but I am able to get the kind of toothy edge which I like on hunting and kitchen knives with my EDGE-PRO setup. Smaller knives are harder for me to put in order but I sorta get by with a potpouri of free-hand stones and my EZE-LAP diamond hones which nest inside themselves in a brass casing. Stainless steel blades are the most frustrating to me. I would like to know more about this Lansky system- Is it workable for the smaller blades in pocket knives?
-Paul T.
WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded Schrades in good condition.
WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded Schrades in good condition.
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I can’t get a lansky to work on small blades for nothing. I can’t get the clamp out of the way and the stone wants to ride on the clamp instead of the blade.jerryd6818 wrote:Pocket knives are all I do on it and it works for all blades including the pen blades and the small coping blade on a whittler. Is that small enough for you Cal?tongueriver wrote: this Lansky system- Is it workable for the smaller blades in pocket knives?
But I’m technically challenged too, so.......
“There are things in the old Book which I may not be able to explain, but I fully accept it as the infallible word of God, and receive its teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit.”
Robert E. Lee
Robert E. Lee
- tongueriver
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Since I already have the Edge Pro Apex and I like it for larger blades, I will buy this sba and give it a try.KnifeSlinger#81 wrote:There is a thing for the edge pro called the small blade attachment....
Jerry, thanks for your thoughts on the Lansky system; I am going to look at that as well. To tell the truth, I would rarely feel the need to sharpen any blades smaller than those found in a four inch stockman or 3 5/8 inch jack. Knives which I own that are smaller than that are pretty much collectibles and do not get used.
- tongueriver
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
On a related note, I found this film that may also be of interest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLjBF7k ... GzMGMBALDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLjBF7k ... GzMGMBALDI
- Steve Warden
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I tried freehand and scratched up some blades pretty bad. That was with a Smiths Tri-stone.
I have and tried a clamp type system similar to the Lansky rod system. I don't like the clamp. As has been said, there can be problems keeping the blade clamped.
I now have the Lansky Turnbox 2D2C. It has 2 diamond coated rods (medium grit) and 2 ceramic rods (fine). I insert the rods in the 20° holes for pocket knives, 25° holes for kitchen knives. Once the rods are inserted, they are at the optimum angle. Hold the blade straight and sweep it down the rod for one side, back to the top of the other rod for the other side of the blade edge. Arm hair shaving sharp in no time.
I have and tried a clamp type system similar to the Lansky rod system. I don't like the clamp. As has been said, there can be problems keeping the blade clamped.
I now have the Lansky Turnbox 2D2C. It has 2 diamond coated rods (medium grit) and 2 ceramic rods (fine). I insert the rods in the 20° holes for pocket knives, 25° holes for kitchen knives. Once the rods are inserted, they are at the optimum angle. Hold the blade straight and sweep it down the rod for one side, back to the top of the other rod for the other side of the blade edge. Arm hair shaving sharp in no time.
Take care and God bless,
Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000
But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)
Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000
But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)
- jerryd6818
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I just got one of those a couple of weeks ago. Haven't really done much on it yet.Steve Warden wrote: I now have the Lansky Turnbox 2D2C.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I'm with you ... the Lansky isn't very good at sharpening tiny blades, which is probably why I avoid pen type knives with tiny thin blades ...Colonel26 wrote:jerryd6818 wrote:tongueriver wrote: t
I can’t get a lansky to work on small blades for nothing. I can’t get the clamp out of the way and the stone wants to ride on the clamp instead of the blade.
pffffft that's not a knife ......... now THAT'S a knife !! Crocodile Dundee
John
John
- Steve Warden
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Even handles the small blades many seem to have trouble with.jerryd6818 wrote:I just got one of those a couple of weeks ago. Haven't really done much on it yet.Steve Warden wrote: I now have the Lansky Turnbox 2D2C.
Take care and God bless,
Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000
But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)
Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000
But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Steve, that looks a lot like the old Steamboat Sharpener I used to have. But it was 4 ceramic rods. Worked great for touch ups.
I’ve used other things. But I alyeRs go back to stones. I guess I’m just stuck in the (wait for it) Stone Age! Lol
I’ve used other things. But I alyeRs go back to stones. I guess I’m just stuck in the (wait for it) Stone Age! Lol
“There are things in the old Book which I may not be able to explain, but I fully accept it as the infallible word of God, and receive its teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit.”
Robert E. Lee
Robert E. Lee
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Colonel26 wrote: I’m just stuck in the (wait for it) Stone Age! Lol
Much to your credit, my good man!
Joe
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Guys, I've probably got more sharpening "systems' than most and it seems like I always go back to my Norton 3 stones in oil system. I have a course , medium, and a hard Arkansas stone in it. works for me. Terry
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
That is a nice looking sharpening station you have, Terry.
That seems like a very worthwhile tool for sharpening as are the others mentioned. Of the systems mentioned, I like that one the best.
Personally, I've always been a fan of the loose stone. They are quit portable and you can use both sides and the edges if you choose.
Here are most of my "sharpening systems".
For the most part I like the water stones but any of these are available to me by a mere reach.
I wish I knew more about Belgium water stones. I think I have four of them. In using them I think I get remarkable results.
I hope my imagination isn't playing tricks on me. For all I know they could be chunks of some paving stone.
I hope that's not the case.
It's nice to read others techniques.
Good thread.
That seems like a very worthwhile tool for sharpening as are the others mentioned. Of the systems mentioned, I like that one the best.
Personally, I've always been a fan of the loose stone. They are quit portable and you can use both sides and the edges if you choose.
Here are most of my "sharpening systems".
For the most part I like the water stones but any of these are available to me by a mere reach.
I wish I knew more about Belgium water stones. I think I have four of them. In using them I think I get remarkable results.
I hope my imagination isn't playing tricks on me. For all I know they could be chunks of some paving stone.
I hope that's not the case.
It's nice to read others techniques.
Good thread.
Joe
- Cletus Awreetus
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I don't know about you guys but in my experience, there just are not a lot of people who have a clue about sharpening a blade. I mean people that hunt and fish, etc let alone just take on average kitchen duty. I think the sharpening systems available these days are great but make no mistake, they ain't magic. You really need a good working understanding of the way an edge is formed or you're setting yourself up for frustration and failure even with what appears to be the most fool proof system. I prefer free hand sharpening. It takes a lot of practice but to me is much more satisfying and let's face it, this is a hobby. I' must own 15-20 various stones and when I'm in the mood I'll happily do a 4-5-6 stone progression depending on the steel just because, I can. I've got a TSProf system that I use on recurves and other funky shapes and I love it. But I much prefer free hand sharpening. as others have said, to each his own. If you can make it sharp to your satisfaction, what else is there to say.
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- KnifeSlinger#81
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
I think you've got it exactly right Cletus.Cletus Awreetus wrote:I don't know about you guys but in my experience, there just are not a lot of people who have a clue about sharpening a blade. I mean people that hunt and fish, etc let alone just take on average kitchen duty. I think the sharpening systems available these days are great but make no mistake, they ain't magic. You really need a good working understanding of the way an edge is formed or you're setting yourself up for frustration and failure even with what appears to be the most fool proof system.
-Paul T.
WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded Schrades in good condition.
WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded Schrades in good condition.
- Mumbleypeg
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Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
True, but guys, it ain't rocket science either!KnifeSlinger#81 wrote:I think you've got it exactly right Cletus.Cletus Awreetus wrote:I don't know about you guys but in my experience, there just are not a lot of people who have a clue about sharpening a blade. I mean people that hunt and fish, etc let alone just take on average kitchen duty. I think the sharpening systems available these days are great but make no mistake, they ain't magic. You really need a good working understanding of the way an edge is formed or you're setting yourself up for frustration and failure even with what appears to be the most fool proof system.
IMHO there's too many folks these days that are into instant gratification. If they can't master it in 5 minutes or less, many don't have the patience to learn it. They just quit and start looking for a machine to do it (or hire someone). JMO
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
Had to Google that one. DANG that looks complicated!Cletus Awreetus wrote: I've got a TSProf system that I use on recurves and other funky shapes and I love it.
Pricey, too .. ... ..
Chris
i woke last night to the sound of thunder
how far off i sat and wondered
started humming a song from nineteen sixty two
aint it funny how the night moves
i woke last night to the sound of thunder
how far off i sat and wondered
started humming a song from nineteen sixty two
aint it funny how the night moves
Re: Sharpening systems, free hand, choices
One aspect that I don't thing has been bought up yet ... the Lanksy gets a perfect, I mean PERFECTLY shaped edge. No offense guys, but I can't imagine even the most skilled hand sharpener among us could get perfectly formed edges like a guided rod system can obtain. For practicality, it probably doesn't cut much better than a finely hand honed edge, but it sure looks better to me ...
pffffft that's not a knife ......... now THAT'S a knife !! Crocodile Dundee
John
John