sharpening novice needs guidance

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Mr. Chips
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Mr. Chips »

Take a look at the angle on a Mora.
Pretty close to 10 degrees per side.
They cut pretty good.
20 degrees is ok if you are scraping gaskets off of an engine block. Not so great for real whittlin'

By the way, if you look at the older instructions on the bench stones they used to have in hardware stores for the use of customers, They suggested much flatter angles than the later ones.

I say 10 degrees because it works, and there is already an angle ground into the blade, so the actual angle is steeper than that.
Anyway, I have been whittlin' for 65 years now and have sold a lot of my work. I want a knife to CUT not to look at.

I use the same angle on hunting knives too, and have disassembled quite a few deer, moose, and bears. I can usually get a moose gutted and skinned and still shave hair with my Camillus folding knife.
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FRJ
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by FRJ »

I wonder how things were back in the mid eighteen hundreds and far earlier when sharp knives were so important.
Just as they are today, as a matter of fact. I wonder how men an women in rural areas sharpened their knives. They must have rubbed knives on found smooth stones as they could. They must have had favorite river stones. If they lived near Novaculite stone and were aware of it's sharpening attributes, which they almost certainly were, they must have counted themselves lucky. They must have cherished their stones. To have a sharp knife was hugely important and I can't believe they had sharp knives continuously.
I wonder what it was like for very rural folks to learn that there was available, for money or barter, smooth even sided sharpening stones, that for much less work, would put a very even edge on your knife. It really makes me wonder because there was a real transition there and it was very important. In my ignorance, I have this scenario quite simple but I know very little about this kind of history and I think it's very interesting.
I feel confident in thinking they probably laid that blade right over on that stone. These were mostly intelligent people who knew what they needed.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Interesting discussion. The only thing to be concluded is there is no single”right way”. We all sharpen to personal preference and experience, and the job at hand. I defer to the title of this thread and the OP regarding appropriate recommendations for “novice guidance”. In typical AAPK fashion we now have covered normal everyday knife use and “real whittlin”. :lol: ::tu::

For those who subscribe to Knife Magazine there is an excellent article on sharpening, by knifemaker Abe Elias, in the May 2019 issue. Although most of the article talks about power sharpening using belts, there is some good commentary about sharpening in general and "sharpening myths", including the desirability and usefulness of a razor sharp edge.

Sharpen to your personal preference - whatever works for you. ::handshake::

Ken
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kootenay joe
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by kootenay joe »

Mr. Chips, how do you know that the sharpening angle that works so well for you is actually 10 degrees per side ? Do you have a way to measure the angle ?
kj
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Steve Warden
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Steve Warden »

Just found it interesting -- what's the best angle?
Thought I'd share.
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Deta ... s-W28.aspx
Take care and God bless,

Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000

But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)
Mr. Chips
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Mr. Chips »

kootenay joe wrote:Mr. Chips, how do you know that the sharpening angle that works so well for you is actually 10 degrees per side ? Do you have a way to measure the angle ?

kj
I do measure the angle using little wedges that I cut to 10 degrees using my bandsaw and a jig I made. My students put the wedge at the end of the stone and lay the blade on it with the edge on the stone. It helps the learners have a reference as to what the 10 degree angle is when learning freehand sharpening.

If the angle they actually sharpen at is a bit steeper, say 15 degrees, it is no big deal. It will still work.
Mr. Chips
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Mr. Chips »

It occurs to me that since almost all blades have an angle round in already, and since my procedure is to lie the flat side of the knife on the wedge, the total angle on that side of the knife is likely closer to 15 degrees.

I do not measure the angle from the center of the blade.

I do know that I make my edges a lot thinner than most people do though, and they work well for what I do.

I don't chop with knives. Axes are my choppers.
kootenay joe
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by kootenay joe »

Wedge = neat ! Do the learners move the wedge and knife over the stone ? i.e. by keeping blade flat on the 10 degree wedge then the 10 degree angle is maintained. Then after some practice the wedge is no longer needed ?
Have you bought any new traditional style knives lately ? If so, some of them can be 40 degrees per side (e.g. Queen). It must take a very long time to free hand sharpen these blades to 10 degrees per side ?
kj
Mr. Chips
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Mr. Chips »

kootenay joe wrote:Wedge = neat ! Do the learners move the wedge and knife over the stone ? i.e. by keeping blade flat on the 10 degree wedge then the 10 degree angle is maintained. Then after some practice the wedge is no longer needed ?
Have you bought any new traditional style knives lately ? If so, some of them can be 40 degrees per side (e.g. Queen). It must take a very long time to free hand sharpen these blades to 10 degrees per side ?
kj
The wedge is for reference. At first a beginner checks the angle every few strokes on the wedge. Later the wedge isn't needed.

Yes, some new knives have absurd edge angles. It can take a while to get the right bevel on a blade. A Norton India stone cuts pretty fast though. Diamond in a medium grit is even faster.
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cudgee
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by cudgee »

thickskinner54 wrote:I'm going to go check eBay for one of those Lansky turnbox 2D2C's Steve. Thanks for the tip. I do want to learn freehand though.
Hi, if you are still looking at the Lansky Turnbox, have a look at Idahone website. They have a V angle sharpener, which i think is just as good as the Lansky, better if you have larger knives. Check out the learning center on their website, it is really helpfull.
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thickskinner54
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by thickskinner54 »

Thanks, Cudgee, That was super helpful and I am going to get that sharpener! Seems perfect for my blades. I really appreciate the tips, bro. ::handshake::
Take care,
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Nev52
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Nev52 »

I know this is a old thread but I am going to put in my 2 cents.
My Dad taught me to sharpen a knife when I was 13 years old. I am 60 now so I have sharpened one or two in my day.
I have tried the V sticks, Lansky sharpeners, belt sanders just about everything. But I always come back to Novaculite Arkansas stones at a 15 to 20 degree angle.
That's on work knives, Hunting knives or Kitchen knives. If the edge is in poor shape I start off with a soft Arkansas 400 grit then move up to hard 800 grit. Next I use the black novaculite 1200 grit. I finish off with a white stropping compound the move up to green stropping compound work knives and hunting knives are very sharp after this procedure. If I am doing a kitchen knife I do one more strop with a red compound.
I don't know if this is the best method but works for me.
eveled
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by eveled »

Take a stick and try to shave off a sliver the longer the better. That’s the motion and angle you want to use on the stone.

The sharpie trick is an excellent teaching tool.
Ropeman
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Re: sharpening novice needs guidance

Post by Ropeman »

eveled wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:33 pmThe sharpie trick is an excellent teaching tool.
And a good magnifying glass! Once you see what you are doing to the blade it helps with your technique.
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