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Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:38 am
by Art In Colorado
What is best grit to buy? Have several oil stones but would like to try one of these.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:05 am
by Sharpnshinyknives
[quote="Art In Colorado"]What is best grit to buy? Have several oil stones but would like to try one of these.[/quote


I can’t speak for everyone, but my 600 grit on one side and 1000 grit on the other is my favorite Japanese stone. It wasn’t cheap but it put’s really fine edge on my Japanese chef knives. I have found other uses for the 1000 grit as well, it works for polishing metal too.
SSk

Actually my Japanese stones are 6000 and 10,000 grit. Didn’t think that was correct when I posted it and checked and sure enough it’s got an extra 0 behind each one of them. The 10,000 grit is so fine that I actually used it to take the green corrosion off of bolster on a Case Sidewinder that had turned green from being left in the sheath for decades. It looked as good as new when done. You will get a lot of use out these stones, they can’t be beat.
SSk

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:17 am
by FRJ
Art, what kind of blades are you planning to sharpen? What is their length?
What will you use them for?

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:01 pm
by Art In Colorado
I have two knives made of S30V, two Tops made of 1095 carbon and a Benchmade made of M390. Also, two Schrade pocket knives made in New York.
I have no problem keeping them sharp but am always looking for something new.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:24 pm
by FRJ
Art, if you are new to water stones and have used stones before you are in for a nice surprise.
They work very efficiently and very quickly. Especially the low grit stones. They are soft.
If you are not careful you can actually cut into them, slightly, when your edge gets sharp. I have little scares on mine.
The lower grits, as you know, are great for creating an edge quickly and the higher grits keep the edge refined.
Same as other stones but they do it faster. If you try one you will get a feel for it.
I have a 300 grit that I haven't used very much. Don't need it much. Not sure how much I like it.
I have a 800 grit that is the cats pajamas. My using knives, Pocket/kitchen, are usually in pretty good shape and this stone
brings them back to life quite nicely.
I have a 1200 stone that I like as much as the 800. Basically for the same reasons.
I have a 8000 grit stone that I bought for sharpening my wood working chisels initially. I polish an edge with it when I feel the need.
I have a combination stone with a soft/hard grit. I don't remember what they are nor do I care. I just like the grits and use it as well.
The thing is, combination stones leave a lot to be desired in terms of usefulness. You can use only one side and you can't use the edges. They cost less up front but you loose a lot. The edges are great for small folding blades.
My stones are 8" x 2 1/2" x 1 or 1 5/16". I always recommend buying the largest stone you can buy. You won't regret it.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:34 am
by Art In Colorado
Thank you. Some good advice right there. :D

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:55 pm
by Art In Colorado
Need some more advice. I presently have a Smith's medium oil stone 20 years old. A India combination stone about 15 years old. Both 8 inches long. I also have if I remember right a Case Moon Stone I purchased right after I got married in 1968. It is very hard and just 4 inches long and mounted on a wood base with the the same wood cover. So I found on the Knife Center a 8 inch Japaneese water stone 1000 grit and a 8 inch 800 grit water stone both for about $30.00.

Since I get along quite well with what I have and would just like to try something else, would either of these make sense or should I be looking at a higher price stone.

Thank you. You have been a great help and I value your experience.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:54 pm
by FRJ
Art, the water stones are interesting, especially if they're flat.
I have this 800 stone that is dished because I didn't keep up with rubbing it flat which is easy to do if you have some rather thick glass and abrasive paper, which I do. Or you can rub the stones together to keep them flat. I haven't done that but I see where it can be done. The rubbing together must be done probably after each use with another similar stone.
Anyway ...... I gladly use that dished stone and if the stones you mentioned are anywhere near decent it might be a pretty good deal.
Using water stones is a great way to sharpen. I have many other kinds of stones and I like using them too but I keep the water stones
quite handy.
Your Smith (novaculite?) and India combo sound like great stones. Especially at 8". I can see how they would serve you well.
I probably have stones quite like them. I use water on all my stones.
Honestly, if a guy had just a 8 inch Carborundum stone, coarse/fine grit he could get by just fine. ..... but what fun is that?

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:16 am
by Sharpnshinyknives
Art In Colorado wrote:Need some more advice. I presently have a Smith's medium oil stone 20 years old. A India combination stone about 15 years old. Both 8 inches long. I also have if I remember right a Case Moon Stone I purchased right after I got married in 1968. It is very hard and just 4 inches long and mounted on a wood base with the the same wood cover. So I found on the Knife Center a 8 inch Japaneese water stone 1000 grit and a 8 inch 800 grit water stone both for about $30.00.

Since I get along quite well with what I have and would just like to try something else, would either of these make sense or should I be looking at a higher price stone.

Thank you. You have been a great help and I value your experience.

I think the 8 inch stone is adequate for most knives. You need it to be at least 8 for kitchen knives. Your 800 and 1000 would work great on most knives. The next step is to get stones that are much finer. I updated my first post , my stone is 6000 and 10,000 grit. I love the higher grits for putting a super fine edge on my Japanese chef knives. The edge is very thin on these and that’s the only thing that will make them razor sharp and super smooth cutting again. If you are really into sharpening and want to move into these, you might buy at least 1 stone with 6,7,8,9, or 10 thousand grit for finishing with.
SSk

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:27 am
by OSCAR
I’ve used water stones before and they can in fact create a fantastic edge. My problem though, being sharpening challenged, is maintaining perfect angles. It would be terrific if someone made an angle guide to use with them. As for them being soft, yes you can scar them with a sharp knife. They have a smaller stone whose purpose is to flatten and smooth the stones surface. I believe it’s called nagura.
Excellent for sharpening, but there are easier methods. And a good Japanese waterstone is pricey. Cheaper ones don’t hold up as well and don’t do as fine a job. I’ve gone to other methods. Not because the water stones aren’t good but because there are easier ways. I’ve never been able to maintain consistent angles so I prefer guides.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:22 am
by Daryl
OSCAR wrote:I’ve used water stones before and they can in fact create a fantastic edge. My problem though, being sharpening challenged, is maintaining perfect angles. It would be terrific if someone made an angle guide to use with them. As for them being soft, yes you can scar them with a sharp knife. They have a smaller stone whose purpose is to flatten and smooth the stones surface. I believe it’s called nagura.
Excellent for sharpening, but there are easier methods. And a good Japanese waterstone is pricey. Cheaper ones don’t hold up as well and don’t do as fine a job. I’ve gone to other methods. Not because the water stones aren’t good but because there are easier ways. I’ve never been able to maintain consistent angles so I prefer guides.
Oscar,

I found these angle guides on Amazon. They fasten to the stone with a heavy-duty rubber band. I'm still working at perfecting my technique with these, but I've found that with some practice I've been able to hold the angle over an entire stroke. Actually, I ordered a second set of the same guides, and I fasten one at each end of the stone so that I can alternate strokes without having to turn the stone or switch hands. That seems to be working out pretty well. One thing I should caution about, though: the description says angles "from 10 to 39 degrees." That's not true. In reality, it's 10 to 20 degrees, which generally covers the range I use most.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

Like you, I am sharpening challenged and have found other methods (mainly angled rods and the GATCO and Lansky clamp systems) to be better for my needs. I still want very much to be able to sharpen on stones, so I keep trying, but it's hard for me for some reason.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:47 pm
by Sharpnshinyknives
Daryl, preach it brother. I have the same problem.
Here is a link to the japanesechefkifedirect website and their instructional videos and guides on sharpening. https://japanesechefsknife.com/pages/how-to-sharpen
I have found this very helpful especially when using Japanese whetstones.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:47 pm
by Daryl
Sharpnshinyknives wrote:Daryl, preach it brother. I have the same problem.
Here is a link to the japanesechefkifedirect website and their instructional videos and guides on sharpening. https://japanesechefsknife.com/pages/how-to-sharpen
I have found this very helpful especially when using Japanese whetstones.

Thank you!! I'll definitely check this out. I need all the help I can get.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:28 pm
by FRJ
This is one of the better videos on sharpening I have seen. Why? The guy has determined an angle and is moving the blade edge
on the stone to remove metal from the edge.This is a very important technique in sharpening. :mrgreen:
Removing metal and looking at the edge with lots of light and doing it rapidly. If you want to get the job done today.
The better your edges are the quicker the sharpening. Creating a new edge? Use a coarse stone.
It takes some experience, so try doing it as often as you can.

Re: Japaneese Water Stone

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:45 pm
by OSCAR
Daryl: Thanks for the link to those angle guides. They look like they will do a good job. I will order some so I can use my waterstones again. I only sharpen knives I use as working tools. Collector knives I leave alone. I do think most people are challenged when it comes to freehand sharpening on a stone. I’d rather use a guide like these or Lansky stones with guide rods.
I’d love to have the skill for freehand, but I hate to mess up a good tool so whatever method I use, I need guides. I also agree that angle is important. I like 15 degrees off on each side. More acute will create a sharper edge, but it will dull way faster, or curl or chip. Working knives should NOT be shaving sharp. Oscar