FINALLY!

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cody6268
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FINALLY!

Post by cody6268 »

I finally got a sharp edge on a knife. I used to do well in my late teens, with just a black synthetic stone that belonged to my great-uncle as well as soft and hard Arkansas stones. I was buying more new knives, and good sharpening skills fell out of practice.

I didn't use my Worksharp Guided Field Sharpener or any of the fancy sharpeners I've bought over the years. Just freehand, on a basic, orange Norton Abrasive pocket oilstone, which a Norton rep gave my Granddad years ago, and soon became my first stone. I'd clogged the regular surface, but the one with the logo embossed into it was clean, since I didn't think one was supposed to use that side . So, I used that. But, these stones are very coarse grit--I'm thinking 400? So, you're not gonna shave with it.

I need to find my Case Hard Arkansas stone. I have an edge that effectively cuts paper and paracord. In other words, a passable working edge. With Hard Arkansas, it will shave I bet.


Here's what I learned:

I was using too narrow of an angle. I interpreted a 25" cutting angle as a 25" sharpening angle. I should've been using 45-50"

I was using too much pressure. Diamonds need none, Arkansas needs little pressure, and I don't think the oilstones need much either.

I was using too little oil, and not cleaning my stones after using them. This clogged them with metal, and was magnified by the fact I used too much pressure, which clogged them with even more material than normal.

A suggestion made by a member here on another thread was that I needed to get a bigger stone. That is a very big one. These are "POCKET" stones, mostly for "well, better than nothing I suppose". Bench stones are designed for regular sharpening. Pocket stones are for jobs in which a blade might dull from lots of heavy cutting--i.e. hunting/fishing or work.

I need to find my old axe sharpening stone I used to start with. The Harbor Freight is a little cheap. I unfortunately dropped the Lansky soft Arkansas a couple years ago, and it broke. Obviously, I need bench hard and soft Arkansas, but what about a decent, affordable double-sided oilstone for major reprofiling work?
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Working Edge
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

Sharpening Supplies. Com sells a complete two-sided oilstone (U.S.A. made) kit, along with many other oilstones and water stones.

Here's a link:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Trad ... P1891.aspx

You can't go wrong with this particular double-sided stone, if you could own only one stone, this one would serve you very well.

Just as an aside, I am moving away from using oil on my oilstones, and moving towards using water instead, but that's another discussion...

Hope this helps..!
Mark
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FRJ
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by FRJ »

Working Edge wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:38 pm You can't go wrong with this particular double-sided stone, if you could own only one stone, this one would serve you very well.
moving towards using water
Mark
I agree, Mark, that if you have just one stone a double sided stone is probably a better option.
However, as often as sharpening stones are available in so many sizes and grits the idea of having several stones is a huge advantage. And having individual stones is even more advantageous. You can use both sides and the edges if need be. You can, of course use the ends too. The whole stone is available to your needs. Simply put, it's a better value.

"moving towards using water" ........... You've seen the light! ::woot::
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Working Edge
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

FRJ wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:33 pm
Working Edge wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:38 pm You can't go wrong with this particular double-sided stone, if you could own only one stone, this one would serve you very well.
moving towards using water
Mark
I agree, Mark, that if you have just one stone a double sided stone is probably a better option.
However, as often as sharpening stones are available in so many sizes and grits the idea of having several stones is a huge advantage. And having individual stones is even more advantageous. You can use both sides and the edges if need be. You can, of course use the ends too. The whole stone is available to your needs. Simply put, it's a better value.

"moving towards using water" ........... You've seen the light! ::woot::
Yessir, I certainly agree with what Y'all wrote, about multiple bench stones.
I myself am just this month winding down from a recent rash of stone purchasing, lol....
Mark
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cudgee
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by cudgee »

Working Edge wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:38 pm Sharpening Supplies. Com sells a complete two-sided oilstone (U.S.A. made) kit, along with many other oilstones and water stones.

Here's a link:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Trad ... P1891.aspx

You can't go wrong with this particular double-sided stone, if you could own only one stone, this one would serve you very well.

Just as an aside, I am moving away from using oil on my oilstones, and moving towards using water instead, but that's another discussion...

Hope this helps..!
Mark
Mark, i have also moved from oil to water, but i add a few drops of dish washing liquid. Makes the edge move over the stone just that little bit easier, and helps move away the removed metal. Also helps immensely to clean the stone when finished, just run it under water giving it a good scrub then let dry and put away for next time. ::tu::
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Working Edge
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

Thanks, cudgee, I will do that, and the tech tip is much appreciated..!!
In the meantime, I've given the more porous oilstones (the India and Crystalons,) a bath in alcohol to dissolve much of the oil, and am fixin' to repeat the process with soapy water.
The Arkansas stones are not nearly as porous, and so cleaned up pretty quickly with just the alcohol.

::handshake::
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cudgee
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by cudgee »

Working Edge wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:16 am Thanks, cudgee, I will do that, and the tech tip is much appreciated..!!
In the meantime, I've given the more porous oilstones (the India and Crystalons,) a bath in alcohol to dissolve much of the oil, and am fixin' to repeat the process with soapy water.
The Arkansas stones are not nearly as porous, and so cleaned up pretty quickly with just the alcohol.

::handshake::
Mark
Mate, how do you find the Arkansas Stones, i am looking at getting both the Soft and Black for an guided angle sharpener, they are made by Grit-o-matic from Dans Arkansas stone. Been looking up some reviews, get some really good reports, and a lot of bad reports, but i think, and i don't know, a lot of people have a bias against them because they are not as fast cutting as some of the newer man made materials, and now everyone wants every thing Yesterday. Would value your opinion. ::nod:: ::tu::
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Working Edge
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

I love my freehand Arkansas stones, and I find my soft Arkansas to bit every bit as fast cutting as I need it to be, there is no speed deficit in forming an edge.
I agree, Arkansas stones are not as fast-cutting as man-made abrasive stones, but that's not an issue for me.
By the same token, my hard and black hard Arkansas stones are as fast as I need, for refining an edge.
Not to mention, my Arkansas stones will still be going strong long after my water stones have worn away and been discarded.
Some folks say the Arks are not effective on the extra-hard, high-carbide super-steels, but I honestly haven't yet encountered a blade which I couldn't quickly and effectively sharpen on my Arks.
That said, I would love to order two or three Arkansas stones for my Edge Pro unit, but such stones are not in my budget at this time.
Hope this helps...!!
Mark
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cudgee
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by cudgee »

Working Edge wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:53 pm I love my freehand Arkansas stones, and I find my soft Arkansas to bit every bit as fast cutting as I need it to be, there is no speed deficit in forming an edge.
I agree, Arkansas stones are not as fast-cutting as man-made abrasive stones, but that's not an issue for me.
By the same token, my hard and black hard Arkansas stones are as fast as I need, for refining an edge.
Not to mention, my Arkansas stones will still be going strong long after my water stones have worn away and been discarded.
Some folks say the Arks are not effective on the extra-hard, high-carbide super-steels, but I honestly haven't yet encountered a blade which I couldn't quickly and effectively sharpen on my Arks.
That said, I would love to order two or three Arkansas stones for my Edge Pro unit, but such stones are not in my budget at this time.
Hope this helps...!!
Mark
Thanks Mark helps tremendously, when i mentioned what i had read and seen about Arkansas stones being not as fast as man made materials, this does not worry me, i really enjoy taking my time sharpening and inspecting the edge as i go, i just enjoy it. I always keep my edges sharp with regular stropping after use or fine tuning on Ceramic, and i have enough courser grit stones to reprofile or get a bevel back to sharp if it gets blunt, but i want to try Arkansas stones, always been curious about them but never got around to trying them. They have been around for a long time, a lot of the old timers used them many generations ago, if they were no good they would have disappeared 100 years ago. You have a good holiday weekend. :)
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FRJ
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by FRJ »

Gentlemen, be aware of the Belgian Blue stone if you can find them. The larger stone is 10 1/2"
There is something wonderfully different about them in the way they cut.
A settle difference I should say, I don't know how to explain but to me they cut very nicely.
They are somewhat softer than the black hard and white hard Arkansas.
Sometimes the white Arkansas are described as "soft white Arkansas".
This can be misleading. They are not soft. Just softer than the black hard Arkansas.
The Ouachita is the softer Arkansas. In my experience.
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

cudgee wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:53 pm
Working Edge wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:53 pm I love my freehand Arkansas stones, and I find my soft Arkansas to bit every bit as fast cutting as I need it to be, there is no speed deficit in forming an edge.
I agree, Arkansas stones are not as fast-cutting as man-made abrasive stones, but that's not an issue for me.
By the same token, my hard and black hard Arkansas stones are as fast as I need, for refining an edge.
Not to mention, my Arkansas stones will still be going strong long after my water stones have worn away and been discarded.
Some folks say the Arks are not effective on the extra-hard, high-carbide super-steels, but I honestly haven't yet encountered a blade which I couldn't quickly and effectively sharpen on my Arks.
That said, I would love to order two or three Arkansas stones for my Edge Pro unit, but such stones are not in my budget at this time.
Hope this helps...!!
Mark
Thanks Mark helps tremendously, when i mentioned what i had read and seen about Arkansas stones being not as fast as man made materials, this does not worry me, i really enjoy taking my time sharpening and inspecting the edge as i go, i just enjoy it. I always keep my edges sharp with regular stropping after use or fine tuning on Ceramic, and i have enough courser grit stones to reprofile or get a bevel back to sharp if it gets blunt, but i want to try Arkansas stones, always been curious about them but never got around to trying them. They have been around for a long time, a lot of the old timers used them many generations ago, if they were no good they would have disappeared 100 years ago. You have a good holiday weekend. :)
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

FRJ wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:56 pm Gentlemen, be aware of the Belgian Blue stone if you can find them. The larger stone is 10 1/2"
There is something wonderfully different about them in the way they cut.
A settle difference I should say, I don't know how to explain but to me they cut very nicely.
They are somewhat softer than the black hard and white hard Arkansas.
Sometimes the white Arkansas are described as "soft white Arkansas".
This can be misleading. They are not soft. Just softer than the black hard Arkansas.
The Ouachita is the softer Arkansas. In my experience.
The Belgian Blues, as well as the Coticles, are on my bucket list, but not in my budget..!!! :lol:
Definitely appreciate the tip, though..!
Mark
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cudgee
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by cudgee »

FRJ, thanks for your input, much appreciated. ::tu:: I did look at those stones, i must admit i had not heard of them before, when i discovered them i did some online research and asked a few knowledgeable people about them, good reports, such as you stated. But nearly impossible to get here, found one, but it is only one very high grit, and expensive. But i do not know enough to know if it is good quality, or a second or third quality cut. You have a good Holiday Weekend. :)
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by philco »

Here's an inexpensive solution to your search. The Smith's Tri-Hone has two Arkansas stones (hard and medium) along with a man made coarse stone. I've had one for years and love it. Below is a link.

https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-Arkansas- ... 3239178069
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cudgee
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by cudgee »

Working Edge wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:38 pm Sharpening Supplies. Com sells a complete two-sided oilstone (U.S.A. made) kit, along with many other oilstones and water stones.

Here's a link:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Trad ... P1891.aspx

You can't go wrong with this particular double-sided stone, if you could own only one stone, this one would serve you very well.

Just as an aside, I am moving away from using oil on my oilstones, and moving towards using water instead, but that's another discussion...

Hope this helps..!
Mark
You have been holding out long enough ::mdm:: " but that's another discussion ", why the shift from oil to water? Water with a dash of detergent :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: . Time to start the discussion. ::tu:: ::nod::
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

cudgee wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:46 am
Working Edge wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:38 pm Sharpening Supplies. Com sells a complete two-sided oilstone (U.S.A. made) kit, along with many other oilstones and water stones.

Here's a link:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Trad ... P1891.aspx

You can't go wrong with this particular double-sided stone, if you could own only one stone, this one would serve you very well.

Just as an aside, I am moving away from using oil on my oilstones, and moving towards using water instead, but that's another discussion...

Hope this helps..!
Mark
You have been holding out long enough ::mdm:: " but that's another discussion ", why the shift from oil to water? Water with a dash of detergent :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: . Time to start the discussion. ::tu:: ::nod::
Right you are, cudgee...!

The reason I switched from oil to water, honestly not that I had anything against oil, is that water is so much easier to clean up, and is so very plentiful and available, compared to oil.
As you have observed, a bit of dish detergent in the water floats away steel swarf just as effectively as oil ever does.
After having clung to the tradition of sharpening with oil, I finally found that water on my Arkansas stones allows me to more easily feel the cutting action of stone on steel, especially on the hard Arkansas and black hard Arkansas stones.
Mark
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Working Edge
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

philco wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:41 am Here's an inexpensive solution to your search. The Smith's Tri-Hone has two Arkansas stones (hard and medium) along with a man made coarse stone. I've had one for years and love it. Below is a link.

https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-Arkansas- ... 3239178069
Phil,
Allow me to point out an error in Amazon's description of the Smith's Tri-Hone, in that the Smith's Tri-Hone has one Arkansas stone, (soft Arkansas, ) rather than two.
The three stones are a coarse Silicon Carbide, a medium Aluminum Oxide, and the Soft Arkansas as the fine.
Here is a link to the product page on Smith's own website:
https://smithsproducts.com/6-inch-three ... ing-system

I have one of these Smith's Tri-Hones, and it is indeed a wonderful sharpening tool. If you take the time to screw the base unit down to a piece of wood, (screw holes are provided, ) the Tri-Hone becomes a first-rate portable sharpening solution for hunting, fishing and outdoor knives in base camp, on a truck tailgate or even on the ground or a tree stump.

I hope this helps..!
Mark
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cudgee
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by cudgee »

Working Edge wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 2:35 pm
cudgee wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:46 am
Working Edge wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:38 pm Sharpening Supplies. Com sells a complete two-sided oilstone (U.S.A. made) kit, along with many other oilstones and water stones.

Here's a link:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Trad ... P1891.aspx

You can't go wrong with this particular double-sided stone, if you could own only one stone, this one would serve you very well.

Just as an aside, I am moving away from using oil on my oilstones, and moving towards using water instead, but that's another discussion...

Hope this helps..!
Mark
You have been holding out long enough ::mdm:: " but that's another discussion ", why the shift from oil to water? Water with a dash of detergent :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: . Time to start the discussion. ::tu:: ::nod::
Right you are, cudgee...!

The reason I switched from oil to water, honestly not that I had anything against oil, is that water is so much easier to clean up, and is so very plentiful and available, compared to oil.
As you have observed, a bit of dish detergent in the water floats away steel swarf just as effectively as oil ever does.
After having clung to the tradition of sharpening with oil, I finally found that water on my Arkansas stones allows me to more easily feel the cutting action of stone on steel, especially on the hard Arkansas and black hard Arkansas stones.
Mark
Thanks, i am always interested in other peoples opinions, methods and explanations of how and why they do all things sharpening. You are correct though about sometimes not getting the feel of the stone working using oil, especially on the very fine grits. I used to use mineral oil cut back with mineral spirits, makes a huge difference, and a real old Bushy mate of mine who is virtually self sufficient and very smart and creative, he uses a product called inox, it is the Australian version of WD-40 but is a bit more viscous. He has been using that for years, his reason, exactly what you said, it is lighter than oil and you can feel the stone working, he swears by it. :)
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by Working Edge »

::tu:: ::handshake::
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by FRJ »

If I may comment on the concept that each of you has alluded to in your recent post; that is, feeling the cutting action of the stone.

In my experience, the reason you don't feel the cutting action is because the blade is gliding over a lubricated surface.
This is obvious I know but it is not often considered a detriment to the cutting of the blade steel. When we sharpen we want the stone to cut and abrade the knife edge. A lubricant impedes that process. I think almost any petroleum product does to some degree.
Water, of course, offers no lubrication at all and simply washes away unwanted particles from the process of sharpening leaving a clean cutting environment for the stone to do its work.
The idea of using oil on stones probably started when stones were first introduced way back when. It was passed on through generations. To some people using water may seem pretty radical. Its quite effective.
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cudgee
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Re: FINALLY!

Post by cudgee »

FRJ wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 6:29 am If I may comment on the concept that each of you has alluded to in your recent post; that is, feeling the cutting action of the stone.

In my experience, the reason you don't feel the cutting action is because the blade is gliding over a lubricated surface.
This is obvious I know but it is not often considered a detriment to the cutting of the blade steel. When we sharpen we want the stone to cut and abrade the knife edge. A lubricant impedes that process. I think almost any petroleum product does to some degree.
Water, of course, offers no lubrication at all and simply washes away unwanted particles from the process of sharpening leaving a clean cutting environment for the stone to do its work.
The idea of using oil on stones probably started when stones were first introduced way back when. It was passed on through generations. To some people using water may seem pretty radical. Its quite effective.
All very valid points, as i stated earlier i love hearing other members views on all things sharpening, i am always open to new ideas, and these threads are where you get to hear them. I moved to water a fair while ago, but i can still see the merit in those that use oil. The type of oil is the key, as you said the blade gliding over a lubricated surface and you lose that feel and the sound, sound is a great aid as you sharpen along the bevel. I used to use oil diluted with mineral spirits, so the blade did not just glide and you could still hear the stone doing it's work. But it all comes down to personal choice and what works for you, i personally believe there is a place for both. Have a peaceful Memorial Day. ::handshake::
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