SHARP TALK

A place to share, learn, & show off sharpening tips, tricks, techniques, & tools for sharpening edges of all kinds.
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tongueriver
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SHARP TALK

Post by tongueriver »

What do you mean by sharp? When I touch a knife blade gently to a tender part of a warm finger and it threatens to draw blood I smile and say “sharp.” By this definition, approximately 4 of the 2000 knives I own qualify. What do you think? I may be exaggerating a little, but not much. I don’t think many people have a good idea of it. I receive knives from strangers and close acquaintances who assure me of the sharpness of the item and I end up just rolling my eyes. Most of them are about slightly above butter knife status. Now here is the irony- I am not good at sharpening knives. It is very frustrating, but I like to think that I know a sharp knife when I ‘feel’ it. I have had some mediocre luck at 1095 and CV but the stainless knives elude my skill.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Cal, I have historically had similar frustration with sharpening stainless steel. My results improved significantly when I switched to using diamond “stones”.

The sharpest knife I’ve seen is a custom fixed blade belonging to my son, which he acquired directly from the maker at a show. When he showed it to me I felt the edge with the pad of my thumb, as I’m accustomed to doing and have done over a thousand times. This one cut my thumb, just from barely touching it! It is the only knife I have encountered which I can truly honestly say was “scary sharp”.

I have to say, in general I find razor sharp on most knives to be overkill. A surgeon’s scalpel, a razor certainly, but not a pocket knife. JMO.

Ken
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Beavertail
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by Beavertail »

I use the thumbnail test on knives I sharpen.
My Father was the best knife sharpener I ever seen he was a timber cutter and could sharpen anything with a blade.
He Always used what he called his "Wet Rock" and would finish up with a leather strop.
He would try and show me how and I got pretty good at it but he was the best.
I sure do miss him.
Tim
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stumpstalker
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by stumpstalker »

Beavertail: Offhand, I forget who the helpful person was that instructed me that I could test sharpness bloodlessly if I used my fingernail. Just touch and apply light pressure laterally in the nail edge and if it wants to hold or drag you have your answer. Not unlike testing a fish hook for sharpness, in which case the top of the nail is the testing area.

Mumblypeg raises a good point. Super sharp, meaning ultra-fine (thin), thus vulnerable, trades off with durability.
That said, I agree that most user knives are needlessly un-sharp.

And, unless a collector/user of knives is a professional, with professional caliber sharpening equipment, it is unlikely that he is going to get any stainless-steel blade into the higher levels of sharpness.

Conversely a good edge on a carbon steel blade can be maintained for a long time without regrinding, by just freshening it (realigning the micro-fibers) with a sharpening steel. Nothing more aggressive need be used for a long time, provided you did originally have a well-ground edge on the knife. Bear in mind that “aggressive” means material removal; so best to use the restorative action of the steel, and not stones, grinders, or diamond composites, for as long as is feasible.
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rea1eye
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by rea1eye »

Many years ago I tested the sharpness of a pocket knife by gently running it across my thumb.
Never again! I use what was said previously, the running across top of your fingernail technique.
Attempting to shave a slice of generic computer printer paper edge is also sometimes used.

I agree with the scary sharp condition too. There usually is no need to have that condition.
After a few slices the scarp sharp is gone. Better time spent making sure the knife is well
oiled,not out- gassing, or building a rust.

Bob
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cudgee
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by cudgee »

Sharp is - having an edge that will do the job required for that knife, and retain it's edge during the day. I remember watching old timers when i was a kid, now i'm an old timer, they would use an old carborundum stone with some oil, or spit if they did not have access to oil, and sharpen till they got their required sharpness, and they could get knives sharp. Sometimes we can get caught up in how sharp a knife is, if it does what you need it to do, it is sharp. Considering the amount of sharpening equipment and stones we have at our disposal now, those old blokes were master craftsmen, one stone and a leather belt or sharpening stone. ::woot:: ::woot:: ::woot:: ::nod::
catspa
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by catspa »

Cudgee, now that we’re the old timers, kids these days are looking at us and thinking, “How do those old guys get their knives so sharp? Must be an app for that.”

Parker
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tongueriver
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by tongueriver »

I could use that app. myself.
StrawHat
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by StrawHat »

cudgee wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:01 am…Sharp is - having an edge that will do the job required for that knife, and retain it's edge during the day…
That is it, in a nutshell. I sharpen things everyday. People bring me items and tell me they want a razor’s edge on it. They have no idea what they are asking. I explain what I hear them ask and usually get some nonsense about how their Dad, Uncle whoever put a razor edge on it and it lasted for years! Color me skeptical. Occasionally a Chef will explain how he wants an edge done and I can make that happen. Most folks, sharp is sharp.
cudgee wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:01 am…Sometimes we can get caught up in how sharp a knife is, if it does what you need it to do, it is sharp…
Yep. Some will use 5 different leathers to polish an already sharp edge. On kitchen knives, I don’t feel that is necessary or even desired. Hand planes I like to see a polished edge but not necessarily a mirror.

cudgee wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:01 am…Considering the amount of sharpening equipment and stones we have at our disposal now, those old blokes were master craftsmen, one stone and a leather belt or sharpening stone…
I remember several cabinet makers who had enough sharpening equipment to run a good business. Not all of them had but one stone.

I have at my disposal, probably +/- 200 stones. I routinely use maybe 8. The rest were purchased and tested to see if they were better than what I was using at the time. Some were, some were not.

Kevin
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cudgee
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by cudgee »

catspa wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:17 pm Cudgee, now that we’re the old timers, kids these days are looking at us and thinking, “How do those old guys get their knives so sharp? Must be an app for that.”

Parker
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C-WADE7
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by C-WADE7 »

Kevin,
So what stones are your favorite? I’ve got quite a few myself, but I go to Norton stones a lot, India or carborundum. The DMT diamond cut well for s30v and D2 though.
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FRJ
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by FRJ »

StrawHat wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:56 pm I have at my disposal, probably +/- 200 stones. I routinely use maybe 8. .

Kevin
I am wondering too. I don't think I have 50 stones of various sizes and grits and makeup.
Most of mine are from flea markets but I have bought new water stones, and a diamond stone.
I'm wondering how other stone users favor their stones. I only use water on my stones; earthstones,
carborundum or water stones.
I don't use my pocket knives very much anymore. Always have one on me. I use my kitchen cutlery more than my pocket knives. But they all need sharpening from time to time.
I don't think there is a better way to sharpen than on stones. Not tagged to anything you have complete freedom with your edge and enormous choices in size and grit in stones. Of course I realize stones aren't for everyone and that is unfortunate, in my view.
Joe
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cudgee
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by cudgee »

FRJ wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:55 pm
StrawHat wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:56 pm I have at my disposal, probably +/- 200 stones. I routinely use maybe 8. .

Kevin
I am wondering too. I don't think I have 50 stones of various sizes and grits and makeup.
Most of mine are from flea markets but I have bought new water stones, and a diamond stone.
I'm wondering how other stone users favor their stones. I only use water on my stones; earthstones,
carborundum or water stones.
I don't use my pocket knives very much anymore. Always have one on me. I use my kitchen cutlery more than my pocket knives. But they all need sharpening from time to time.
I don't think there is a better way to sharpen than on stones. Not tagged to anything you have complete freedom with your edge and enormous choices in size and grit in stones. Of course I realize stones aren't for everyone and that is unfortunate, in my view.
Joe you bring up an excellent point about stones. When i posted about " Old Timers " before, i meant when i was a kid watching to me old men sharpening with just one stone, sometimes a double sided grit stone, but usually just a one grit stone. That was all they had and needed. A bit of oil or spit it did not matter to them and away they went and got an edge sharp enough for their needs. With the plethora of sharpening products we have available now there is plenty of overkill. I know i have far too much sharpening equipment but i can't help myself ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: i am currently working on a new sharpener that i have an idea for, whether it works or not we shall see. But you also have a good selection of stones, but in reality the average person only needs 4 stones, from a reprofiling stone to about a 1000 grit, that is enough for most people, and a strop and/or steel if you can use one. Water or oil is a personal preference in my opinion, whatever works for you and your comfortable with, there is a lot of bull dust plastered all over the internet about oil v water, it's your choice. But one thing i have found with the advent of the internet, there is a lot of sharpening snobbery out there, idiots saying if you don't do things a certain [ their way ] way you don't know what you're talking about. It gets very venomous at times, and it's usually rubbish. I'll keep saying it, what works for you my friend, and it's a huge bonus if you enjoy it. Good to chat about one of my favourite subjects my friend, you take care over there. :) ::handshake::
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by StrawHat »

C-WADE7 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:34 pm Kevin,
So what stones are your favorite? I’ve got quite a few myself, but I go to Norton stones a lot, India or carborundum. The DMT diamond cut well for s30v and D2 though.
Currently using a set of DMT Diamond stones with a magnetic base to save my knuckles and a homemade wood base to stabilize the magnetic base. Grits range from XX C to XF. Also have a leather strop and a ceramic water stone (Shapton) mounted on steel plates to use on the magnetic base. Other favorites are a couple of Shapton ceramics, and I still use a few of the natural hard Arkansas stones.

The DMTs work for me because I can use them dry, no wet mess in the venues where I sharpen. I have always carried them as a back up or maybe just because I was taught by Pop how to sharpen using bench stones. One day, at a big venue, I realized I had forgotten to pack my primary sharpening system. The bench stones came out and I was able to complete that trip without a long trip home to get my wheels. Since then, I have relied on the bench stones daily.

Kevin
Knowledge I take to the grave is wasted.
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CluelessNick
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by CluelessNick »

Every Opinel knife I have is scary sharp right out of the package.
Ivoryman
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Re: SHARP TALK

Post by Ivoryman »

Sharpest knife out the box I ever got was a Becker BK9. Shaved hair effortlessly. Still shaved after a lot of chopping and cutting. It's 1095. I also struggled with stones for many years. Took me maybe 30 minutes of hard, focused work to get an adequate result. BUT, DMT diamond stones changed my life. Now it takes 5-10 minutes to get the edge I want and to keep it I use a leather strop. I touch the diamond stone as little as possible. Sharpen less, strop more is my motto. When I get the right edge on a 1095 pocket knife, I can strop it back into hair shaving sharp in 5-10 minutes and it's good for a while. The next time it needs anything, stropping alone will usually do it. Stainless takes more work and lately I have become less fond of keeping a stainless steel sharp, but it can be done. I just prefer 1095 for ease of keeping it that way and have grown to like patina and color. If you don't have a DMT set, do yourself a favor and get one. Should be the best money you ever spend on sharpening tools.
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