Let's talk Vinyl Music.

This forum is for anything & everything music. Post & discuss your favorite songs, artists, instruments, collectibles or memorabilia. Feel free to share original works or covers if you play or perform.
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TripleF
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by TripleF »

313 Mike wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:58 pm I got our 17 year old son Sam a turntable for his birthday this past July. His taste in music is all about the old stuff, nothing modern for him. He loves 40's, 50's and early 60's music, big band jazz, Hank Williams Sr., Frank Sinatra, Johnny Cash, Herman's Hermits, Cab Calloway, Elvis...he has no interest in trying to fit in or be trendy, he just likes what he likes and has no shame about it. So we have been slowly helping him grow his album collection, for Christmas he will be getting a Johnny Cash early years compilation of recordings from his Sun Studios days, a Fats Waller record, and a Henry Miller and his Band record. Along with an 11×14 framed black and white print of Frank Sinatra in the studio when he was very young.
The turntable we got him is just an inexpensive one, but the sound is decent, and he can unplug it and move it around the house from room to room which is cool. So we get to hear the Johnny Mathis record next to the Christmas tree!

Sooooooooooooooo cool bro!! ::tu::
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Jeffinn »

All of my vinyl went to my son and his friend where it’s still listened to today.
In our early years vinyl was “the” format for music.
Then came cassette tapes which were convenient for their portability (vehicle cassette players were all the rage) but definitely inferior in the sound quality department.
From there I believe we went to 8 track tapes. These were also convenient and portable (though a little less portable than cassettes) and had the added advantage of being an endless loop format. Handy if you were okay with listening to the same band non-stop (and particularly useful if you and your friends were stoners and didn’t feel like getting up to change the music)🤪.
Then came CD’s and the record companies started re-releasing everything they had on compact disc. It wasn’t uncommon for us to have dozens of CD’s laying around in the car. CD players were readily available for vehicles and also were available in portable units.
After CD’s compressed music started hitting the internet. MP3’s were readily available from a variety of sources (some legal and some not so much). Downloading tunes to be used in portable devices was the “new normal”. The slight loss of sound quality was worth it to make our music libraries portable. Portable MP3 players were everywhere.
Then came streaming services. Apple and I-tunes led the charge and set the industry on its ear by offering individual song purchases for .99 cents. There’s at least a half a dozen streaming services still out there with a variety of different pricing models.
While I agree that vinyl offers a better sound quality experience I’m also old enough to appreciate the ease and convenience of streaming services like Spotify. It’s nice not having to maintain a music library locally on my computer. And since I have a degree of deafness from eardrum nerve damage (they tell me it’s from all of the loud concerts I went to when I was younger), I can be perfectly happy with sound that comes from my Ultimate Ears portable Bluetooth speaker. A cold beer, a warm day, a portable speaker and a comfortable chair on the backyard deck with some streaming music and I’m good for the day.
Vinyl is making a comeback with the new generation in particular. I know that Detroit has at least one manufacturing facility for vinyl records/albums and I’m sure that there’s a few that I’m unaware of.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by samb1955 »

After I heard the first CD I started to replace my favorite music with them and eventually just threw away my albums.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by 313 Mike »

Old Folder wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:53 am
313 Mike wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:58 pm I got our 17 year old son Sam a turntable for his birthday this past July. His taste in music is all about the old stuff, nothing modern for him. He loves 40's, 50's and early 60's music, big band jazz, Hank Williams Sr., Frank Sinatra, Johnny Cash, Herman's Hermits, Cab Calloway, Elvis...he has no interest in trying to fit in or be trendy, he just likes what he likes and has no shame about it. So we have been slowly helping him grow his album collection, for Christmas he will be getting a Johnny Cash early years compilation of recordings from his Sun Studios days, a Fats Waller record, and a Henry Miller and his Band record. Along with an 11×14 framed black and white print of Frank Sinatra in the studio when he was very young.
The turntable we got him is just an inexpensive one, but the sound is decent, and he can unplug it and move it around the house from room to room which is cool. So we get to hear the Johnny Mathis record next to the Christmas tree!
Great story Mike. It appears as if your Son is going to have a pretty neat Christmas.
See if Sam enjoys the below site, "Fats Waller Favorites" included.
Just click and play. He can search ALL his favorite songs and artists on this site. It's amazing. (And free)
Over 212,000 78 RPMs and Cylinder Recordings.
4.5 million audio recordings total.
Let me know what you think.

https://archive.org/details/78rpm?and%5 ... aller&sin=
Wow, that is a really cool site, thanks so much for sharing the link!
Mike

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Thanks for the trek down memory lane Jeff! ::tu:: I could be wrong but as I remember it, 4-track came before 8-track, then followed by cassettes. I had an 8 track player (aftermarket, not factory) in my ‘67 Mustang which I acquired in 1971.

My taste in music has always varied a lot, even during the same time period. From early rock (Jerry Lee Lewis, Rolling Stones, Beatles), to folk (Bob Dylan, Joan Baez), to Motown (Otis Redding, Gene Chandler), Bluegrass (The Dillard’s, Flatt & Scruggs, Doc Watson), Country (Bob Wills, Lefty Frizzel, Willie Nelson), and Blues (B. B. King, Jimmy Reed, Delbert McClinton). Regardless of genre if I like it, I like it. ::shrug:: Not a fan of today’s Nashville country or hip-hop though.

My vinyl collection acquired during the 60’s and early 70’s has dwindled away to fewer than 100 records, not sure where they all went. Here’s some of what’s left. Aside from my grandparents’ old hand-cranked wind-up 78 RPM Victrola (which won’t play these), I don’t even have a turntable. ::facepalm::

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage »

Yes, 4-track predated 8-track - but it wasn't really very popular compared to 45s & 33s. There was also reel-to-reel tape, which was even earlier, and for many years reel-to-reel was the only audiophile alternative to vinyl. 8-track & cassette were never considered audiophile grade.

OF: Don't misunderstand my earlier comment about Alexa - I absolutely agree with you. There is no question that in using the Alexa, I have traded quality for convenience. I also agree that it is all part of our current "instant satisfaction" society. We don't want to wait to hear a song, just like we now use vastly inferior instant food products instead of waiting for quality food to be prepared and cooked.

However, what I didn't tell you is that when I do want an audiophile music experience, I now turn to my collection of headphones and lossless digital recordings (in FLAC format), played through a high resolution digital-to-audio converter (DAC) and a dedicated headphone amplifier. There are pros and cons to headphones vs speakers, but the biggest reason I use headphones is that I no longer have a room that is suitable for quality listening, and with headphones I can use the volume level I like without bothering my wife (or the neighbors!)

My old ears are nowhere near what they were 40 years ago. If there is an audible difference between my high-res digital recordings and vinyl, I can't hear it. I'm not ashamed to admit that - I know it for a fact!
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

Nice headphone assembly TFL.
Mine are rather ancient.
I do not believe I ever disturb my neighbors, but my wife is not amused.
The decibels increase tremendously when she is visiting her friends/neighbors.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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samb1955 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:02 pm After I heard the first CD I started to replace my favorite music with them and eventually just threw away my albums.
"just threw away my albums"
Wow Sam, that was extreme.
Depending on your albums condition, rarity and demand, you may have thrown out a lot of $$$$.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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Roy Orbison "Pretty Paper" with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.
Remastered to L.P. and CD. for Christmas 2017.
Click the "YouTube" link below.
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file_e0ab883ce1_400sq (1).jpg (53.82 KiB) Viewed 5321 times

https://youtu.be/dTM_47abUSg
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by FRJ »

I bought this album in a thrift store a few years ago. It isn't in a sleeve but it is in very good condition.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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Beautiful Artwork there Joe. ::nod::
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by jerryd6818 »

I bought my faux son-in-law a record player for Christmas, now they're looking for albums. When the record player was suggested to me, I thought he probably already had some albums. Guess not. That will give him something to spend his money on. Being a knife accumulator, I can't be too judgmental. :D
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage »

Ultra high-end turntables are both works of art AND amazing examples of engineering & machining. If you want to see just how wild the pursuit of audio ecstasy can get, check this out - it was designed by a NASA engineer and sells for a cool $137,000!!! :shock:
sgz2Twv8dzFGa8CHKMVnwS-970-80.jpg
More eye candy here: https://www.loudersound.com/features/th ... ey-can-buy
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by jerryd6818 »

I had a Technics SL 1300 and thought it was hot shirt. All I can say to that is WOW!
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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Old Folder wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:57 pm Beautiful Artwork there Joe. ::nod::
Yes, it is a nice well done piece of artwork.
Scrambled for a credit and only found a signature at the bottom of the white picket fence. Dillon. :)
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

Other High End Turntables. :shock:

TechDAS Air Force V turntable
Aug 20, 2019

Unless a truly budget-priced Air Force model is in the works, the TechDAS turntable lineup now seems complete: The recently introduced Air Force Zero ($450,000) is at the top.

My first opinion to even consider purchasing technology that's this expensive, you truly do meet the criterion of having more money than brains. However, on second thought; If you are a Multi-Millionaire and music purity is your ultimate hobby than I say "Why not"? There are some very wealthy people that dedicate much of their free time in the pursuit of the highest quality of "Analog" music.
Of course, I do not see a Turntable at this cost as an investment. It is not a rare Automobile or Mint Honus Wagner Baseball Card or Real Estate that will grow in financial value, mostly because next year TechDAS will most likely have a newer advanced model most likely costing more than their current high end model.

Air Force Zero Turntable Debuts:
If You Have to Ask the Price, You Can't Afford it!

If you are in pursuit of the ultimate top of the line audio perfection, you may want to consider the below turntable.

TechDAS debuted the Air Force Zero turntable at a recent (March 16th 2019) event in Japan that commences a "world tour" for the 771 pound turntable (not including power supply and air pumps) that will make its American debut April 9th and 10th 2020 at The Audio Salon in Santa Monica California. It will next appear at Munich High End May 9-12th 2020.
The base frame of stainless steel weighs 220 pounds. The platter base of extra super duralumin weighs 77 pounds while the combined weight of five (count them) five platters weighs 260 pounds. Broken down there's a bottom 66 pound platter of forged stainless steel atop which is a second forged stainless platter weighing 44 pounds, topped by one of gunmetal weighing an addition 44 pounds, topped by a fourth forged stainless platter weighing an additional 44 pounds followed by a top platter of powdered sintered Tungsten weighing 61 pounds.

Belt drive is via a 3 phase 12 pole AC synchronous limited edition German Pabst motor. An electric motor powers the built in air suspension system. There are three power supply/air pump units weighing a total of 83 additional pounds. Dimensions are: 35" (W) x 26" (D) x 13" (H).

If you have to ask the cost, you cannot afford it but $300,000 is probably a good guess and there will be buyers.
This price is for the "Turntable" only!
You can add an additional $150.000 for the power supply and air pumps.
After taxes, (If you purchase it in California) your looking at close to $500.000 Yes, that's 1/2 Million dollars for a turntable only!
That leads me to wonder what equipment would you obtain to power this ultimate turntable with? Let's not forget a speaker system, a sound or theater room built specifically for acoustic refinement and accompanying proper seating and a foundation to support its near 1,000 pound weight, most presumably made out of fine imported Italian marble.
criterionaudio-tias-techdas-air-force-one-premium-turntable.jpg
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage »

jerryd6818 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:26 pm I had a Technics SL 1300 and thought it was hot shirt. All I can say to that is WOW!
I couldn't afford an SL 1300 on a high school student's budget. I had to settle for the SL 1900. I loved that thing!
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

A little history on "Picture Discs"
Picture discs are records that appear to have pictures, images, or graphics on their playing surface. While most phonograph records are black, except for the label in the center, picture discs may display a photograph or artwork over the entire playing surface.
Picture discs look like round photographs, though unlike photographs, they can also play music.
From a manufacturing standpoint, picture discs consist of a solid core, made of plastic, paper, or metal, that has a paper image placed over it. The core and photo are then covered with clear vinyl and the grooves are pressed on top of them using traditional record presses.
This process necessarily uses less vinyl in the grooves than standard records, and often yields less-than-optimal sound quality. Because of their substandard sound quality, most picture discs are produced as limited edition products, generally targeted at collectors, and are intended to supplement the supply of standard black vinyl records.

I purchased the below "Will Eisner‘s The Spirit Picture Disc/Ev’ry Little Bug" when it came out in 1987. It was $12.98 and was produced and sold in a clear vinyl album cover.
The 1987 Spirit Picture Disc.
This LP album is Will Eisner‘s The Spirit Picture Disc/Ev’ry Little Bug by Eisner/Bill Harr/John Christensen. It features new recordings of “Ev’ry Little Bug” as performed by John Christensen and friends.
The words for the song came from Will Eisner, from his Spirit comic magazine, which was published as an insert it newspapers during the forties and the fifties.
The music was composed by Bill Harr in 1947. These recordings on the record include excerpts from the original 1948 Spirit TV show. The disc itself is copyright 1987, and released by Kitchen Sink Press.

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Below is the 7" 45 rpm "Disneyland Main Street Electrical Parade" and "It's A Small World" we purchased in 1978 when our Daughter was almost 3 years old while visiting Disneyland. They were only sold at Disneyland as "souvenirs" of a visit to the theme park.

IMG_0005 (2).JPG

Many older 78 rpm records produced in the 1930s into the early 1950s with Disney and non-Disney labels are in demand by collectors and sell for many thousands of dollars. Finding these 78 rpm recordings in anything near mint is a real coup, but they do exist and pop-up on occasion
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by carrmillus »

...after reading some of this, I need to get out some of my old lp's and play them again!!!!..... ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu:: ............
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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carrmillus wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:22 pm ...after reading some of this, I need to get out some of my old lp's and play them again!!!!..... ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu:: ............
Great!
Let the good times roll carrmillus.
::ds::
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

Let's talk about RPM

Vinyl Record Sizes and Speeds – What does 33 – 45- 78 RPM mean?

The Difference in Vinyl Record Speeds (33, 45, and 78 records)
33, 45, 78. If you are a new comer to vinyl you may wonder what these numbers actually mean. Vinyl records typically come in three speeds: 33, 45 and 78 rotations per minute (RPM). I believe that the vast majority of aapk members are aware of this.

If you’re like most record lovers you’ve probably flipped speeds from time to time in order to hear your music faster or slower than normal.

It’s a funny little experiment, but what are there three different speeds to begin with? Each not only has a very specific reasoning behind the speed but the state of technology at the time of invention has much to do with the playback speed as well.

The Quest For Better Sound and Improved Playing Time.
The slower a record turns, the less the audio quality. Due to this, in order to provide the best sound possible, the record needs to turn faster (higher RPM). However, when a record turns faster the amount of information it can hold on a record is reduced thus having a shorter playback time.

This is because more information pressed into the vinyl is read in the same period of time. The desire to improve sound quality and yet provide adequate playing time is an issue that remains to this day, but in the early days of audio recording it proved to be a major hurdle.

Early Phonographs:
Thomas Edison invented the very first phonograph, which worked off of a hand crank. Due to this, a set standard speed proved to be impossible.

The average user hand cranked the device at around 80 RPM, yet the vinyl cylinders of the age could hold only five minutes worth of playback material.

The Creation of 78 RPM:
Inventor Emile Berliner created the first true disc record in 1888. However, unlike the Edison model, his playback device used an electric motor. The motor played back a disc at times between 70 and 80 RPM.

As more and more audio manufacturers turned to producing record players, the idea of a 78 RPM turntable became the norm. This is because the 3600 RPM motor used within the turntable saw peak performance at 78.26 RPM.

Eventually, this became the official record standard by 1925. These early records had their short comings however. Not only were they limited in playback time (approximately 3 minutes per side) but also were quite brittle and prone to shatter as they were made of a shellac material. The size of disc varied over time with 10 inches eventually becoming a popular size.

Inventing the 33, Yet Few Used It:
By the time 78 became standard, new methods of audio recording had emerged. This allowed for more information to be printed onto a smaller record without losing any fidelity. Printing records capable of playing at 33 RMP proved to be financially desirable for record companies.

Not only did smaller records suffer less damage but the discs could be printed for less. However, right as the 33 standard emerged, radio proved to be the basis of listening entertainment. Consumers did not need to purchase expensive records.

They could simply listen to the radio. The 33 RMP records stayed in production during this time, but audio studios were the primary user as it took up less room and cost less.

The 33 did not make any real impact on the consumer market until 1948. At this time, Columbia Records began selling a 33 system. It marketed the device with the ability to playback entire classical music performances and symphonies without having to flip the disc over.

Releasing the 45 RPM:
Format wars is nothing new in the audio and video department. From VHS vs. Beta to Blu-ray vs HD-DVD, companies have often put out competing formats. RCA, which failed miserably in the 1930s to release a 33 to the public went out to release a 45 RPM.

The record was smaller than the other options. Ultimately, RCA released the format in order to directly compete with the Columbia Record 33. The 45 of the time did not provide much in terms of an advantage over 78s, and Columbia’s system could play both 33 and 78, so few manufacturers picked up on the 45s.

While the 45 didn’t provide any real benefit over the 78, it was a smaller size. So, by the early 1950s, nearly all record manufactures focused on systems that could play both the 33 and the 45. The 78 more or less dropped out shortly after the conclusion of World War II.

The faster a record spins, the better it sounds. With that in mind, there is only so much a record can play. This ultimately proved to be why the 45 outlived the 78. Of course, everyone has their own listening preferences, so there are still fans of the 78s.

All three speeds though have played an interesting role in the development of enjoying audio at home. There are certain limitations to certain speed records in how they are produced impacting their playback.

Not all record players (Turntables) can play 78s. In order to play a 78 many turntables require special needles or alteration to be able to play at 78 RPM. For those vinyl collectors who want the ultimate freedom of playing all of their records they can opt for an all-in-one record player.

10 inch records can be cut at 45 rpm or 33 rpm and are great for shorter length albums, 45 rpm (with 9-12 minutes per side) or 33 rpm (with about 12-15 minutes per side).


My below 10" Inch Album by Rickie Lee Jones, "Girl At Her Volcano" on Warner Brothers label from 1983 was recorded when Rickey was around 20 years old.

An excellent recording, she has a beautiful voice, I particularly like "Under The Boardwalk". It spins at 33 rpm.

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Steve Warden »

Interesting read. Thanks Dan.
Take care and God bless,

Steve
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by royal0014 »

Interesting information ... ::tu::

Seems I recall it actually being 33 and 1/3rd RPM
::shrug::
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by wlf »

The old stuff just keeps getting better, I just can’t seem to get my body to buy in.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Steve Warden »

There are times I do kinda miss the hiss and pop of vinyl.
Take care and God bless,

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