Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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Old Folder
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

jerryd6818 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 pm Over the years, there were five speeds, 8 1⁄3, ​16 2⁄3, ​33 1⁄3, 45 and 78. I don't recall seeing 8 1/3. That must have been very early.
I have learned and obtained the below information over many years of research of vinyl records and vinyl history.

Actually throughout the history of the recording industry, numerous unusual turn-speeds ranging from 3 to 130 RPM have been utilized for a variety of purposes.
Most are oblivious or latent to us because they are not used in our day to day activities or occupation, especially for those of us here at AAPK.
I have listed below 10 separate speeds and their "most" obvious reason for original introduction. I have not listed uses for 45, or 33 rpm because they are quite obvious.
Of course there may be others that I have not listed, and as technology advances there may be a need or demand for new speeds.

Turn Speed and Uses:

3 RPM
On March 28, 2012, Jack White held a party to celebrate the third anniversary of his Nashville label/record store Third Man Records. The attendees were each given a copy of an LP entitled The First Three Years of Blue Series Singles On One LP at 3 RPM. It consists of 56 songs by 28 bands previously released on Third Man's Blue Series 7" single line compiled on one blue vinyl 12" record, mastered at 3 RPM (approximately 1/11 of standard LP speed) as a further expression of White's obsession with the number 3. In reality though, if one synchronizes this 'catalog' LP with the various CDs containing the music recorded at the correct speed, they will discover that the record in question was actually mastered to play back properly at 4 1/6 RPM. However, as no recording lathe can engrave a record accurately at such a slow speed, in actuality the disc was mastered at four-times speed or 16 RPM with the program material similarly being played at quadruple speed.


4 1/6 RPM
Audiobooks for the blind. In 1966, experiments were conducted by the American Printing House for the Blind in cooperation with the American Foundation for the Blind to create extra-high density discs so that a book or magazine could be contained on fewer records. Test pressings were made at the normal 12-inch and 10-inch sizes in addition to the 7-inch sizes noted below for both 8 1/3 as well as 16 2/3. However, with mastering facilities of the period only going as low as 16 RPM, the quadruple-speed mastering required to get a playback speed of 4 RPM was deemed to have an insufficient audio quality. The highest successful density tested for in the experiment was 10 hours on one side of a 12-inch disc although it was surmised by engineers that this could be extended to 12 hours per side if needed. No books or periodicals were ever produced in the format, and it is not known if any of the experimental discs survive into the modern age.

8 1/3 RPM
Audiobooks for the blind — Beginning in 1969, 8 1/3 RPM records began to be produced (normally in 10-inch format, although 12-inch and 7-inch discs were also produced). This recording format's development was sponsored by the American Foundation for the Blind. One 10-inch record holds four hours of speech with the 12-inch variety holding six hours and the 7-inch variety holding roughly 90 minutes. The format was later used to distribute magazines on nine-inch "flexible discs" recorded at the same 8 1/3 RPM. These discs were made of thin plastic and were literally flexible, similar to an overhead projector transparency sheet. The first magazine to be circulated widely in the flexible disc format to blind individuals was U.S. News & World Report. The National Library Service for the Blind ceased using analog discs as a format for audio book and magazine distribution in 2001.

16 2/3 RPM
Spoken word records — The 16 2/3 RPM speed was used almost exclusively for spoken word content, in particular for earlier versions of the "talking books" used by the visually impaired, though it was also employed in the Seeburg 1000 Background Music System. For this reason, the inclusion of a 16 2/3 speed setting on turntables was compulsory in some countries for many years, despite the records themselves being a rarity. Cassette tapes proved to be a far more popular format for such spoken content. 16 2/3 RPM talking books require a 0.5 (half) mil stylus to avoid being destroyed.
Chrysler's short-lived Highway Hi-Fi format also used 16 2/3 7-inch discs. Some manufacturers of very low-speed discs such as Highway Hi-Fi used shallow and narrow "ultra-microgrooves," requiring a 0.25 mil stylus - modern styluses of 0.7-1.0 mil will damage these fine grooves.
Another notable example of a "16 RPM" record was a 7" single of the song Orouburous by drone band Earth.
The Prestige Jazz double-album MONO series are 12-inch 16-RPM discs. They can be played with a normal mono or stereo stylus (0.7 to 1.0 mil) stylus without damage.

24 RPM
Talking books for the blind in Europe. During the same period, especially in the UK, producers manufactured this speed prior to the days when 16 RPM could provide intelligible voice recognition quality over repeated plays.
Dictation records in the U.S. such as the Edison Voicewriter which recorded on thin flexible plastic discs.

60 RPM
Pre-standardization period — Before 1930, particularly before 1925, a number of proprietary formats existed, with recordings made at speeds including 60 RPM (although most were between 72 and 82 RPM).

77.92 RPM
Pre-standardization period — Before 1930, and before the 78 RPM was considered a worldwide standard, European records were often recorded at 77.92 RPM.

78.26 RPM
Pre-standardization period — Before 1930, and before the 78 RPM was considered a worldwide standard, American records were often recorded at 78.26 RPM.

80 RPM
Edison Disc Records — Standardized to run at 80 RPM, these records were vertically cut, ¼-inch thick with a core of wood flour and, later, china clay.

130 RPM
Pre-standardization period — Before 1930, particularly before 1925, a number of proprietary formats existed, with recordings made at speeds including 130 RPM (although most were between 72 and 82 RPM).
It's always important to know what you don't know.
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Old Folder
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

Steve Warden wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:52 pm Trivia...

The average 33 1/3 rpm LP had 5 songs per side, each song averaging 3 minutes and 20 seconds. How many grooves were on an LP?
Excellent question Steve. ::nod::

After much thought and an endless night of deprived sleep and referring to my old college Calculus books, and numerous "Calculus Worksheet's" I was still stumped. ::hmm:: ::shrug::

38267805-advanced-calculus-and-formulas-on-a-white-background.jpg

Than I said to myself, "Self.... what would Albert Einstein say"?
::pace::

1920px-Albert_Einstein_Head.jpg

Finally, as the morning twilight was approaching my East facing window, I finally came to a conclusion!

The total Grove count on an LP is:
"One (1) Continuous Groove"
::groove::
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Steve Warden »

Old Folder wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:47 am
Steve Warden wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:52 pm Trivia...

The average 33 1/3 rpm LP had 5 songs per side, each song averaging 3 minutes and 20 seconds. How many grooves were on an LP?
Excellent question Steve. ::nod::

After much thought and an endless night of deprived sleep and referring to my old college Calculus books, and numerous "Calculus Worksheet's" I was still stumped. ::hmm:: ::shrug::


38267805-advanced-calculus-and-formulas-on-a-white-background.jpg


Than I said to myself, "Self.... what would Albert Einstein say"?
::pace::


1920px-Albert_Einstein_Head.jpg


Finally, as the morning twilight was approaching my East facing window, I finally came to a conclusion!

The total Grove count on an LP is:
"One (1) Continuous Groove"
::groove::
Oh so close! Two groves on an LP, one per side :wink:
Well done!
Take care and God bless,

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage »

You forgot to count the big scratch that went across the LP from when my sister borrowed my favorite album without asking...
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

Oh so close! Two groves on an LP, one per side :wink:
Well done!

Thank you Steve.
I'll accept that I am half correct.
I forgot to turn the LP over. :oops:
(Also I would like to add that I never studied Calculus in college and I have no Calculus books).
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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TwoFlowersLuggage wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:58 pm You forgot to count the big scratch that went across the LP from when my sister borrowed my favorite album without asking...
That's why I never "loan" out my vinyl. They would never come back the same way they left.
Besides, I do enough damage on my own.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by knife7knut »

Got my first 33 1/3 album in 1956(a Hank Williams 3 album set that I still have)and never really stopped. Started getting into blues in 1961 with Lightnin' Hopkins and Muddy Waters. Had a large collection of 45's I sold in 64 when I went into the Navy. Have no idea how many albums I still have but there are a lot. Most are in the basement with my MCS(Modular Component Systems)3233 receiver and Garrard Lab100 turntable. The shop has a Marantz SR4000 receiver and turntable.
As for music preferences;I like just about anything from classical to country and blues but no RAP! Modern music just doesn't get it for me.
Here are a few of my favorites.
David Allan Coe
Hank Williams
Jack Scott
Jerry Jeff Walker
Kinky Friedman
Kitty Wells
Leo Kottke
Pure Prairie League
Ricky Skaggs
Roy Buchannan
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Old Folder
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Old Folder »

Your "Garrard Lab100 turntable" is a excellent turntable. My first turntable was a Garrard but I do not remember the model number. It was not as advanced as your Lab 100 though.
You have a fine selection of records. ::nod::
Can you set your system up in the basement?
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by knife7knut »

I have set ups both in the basement and the shop. The basement one gets the most workout;or at least it did until No.1 son moved back in.And that is all I will say about that.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by jerryd6818 »

Ray, you have very good taste in music, even if I do say so myself.

Just remember. You can't spell "crap" without "rap".
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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At least Ms. Barton did not toss the vinyl out.

Woman Turns Cheating Ex-Husband’s Vinyl Records Into Her Kitchen Floor
BY : JULIA BANIM ON : 22 JAN 2020 16:15
A mum-of-three has taken out her revenge on her cheating ex-husband through a means which will make record collectors up and down the country wince in agony.

Sonia Barton, 47, from Belper in Derbyshire, was keen to jazz up her lackluster kitchen, adding a bit of color and individuality to the design.

The children’s entertainer saw the perfect opportunity to transform her kitchen floor after eyeing up her ex-husband’s record collection, and took more than a bit of musical inspiration.

Sonia decided to make the vinyl records – which included Dire Straits, Jets Yazz, Hands Up, Showaddywaddy and Paper Lace – part of the floor, using them as striking decorating materials.

She has spent an estimated £2,500 ($3,280.78 United States Dollar) on revamping her kitchen, transforming it into a colorful – and slightly vengeful – culinary wonderland. The most costly part of the decorating project apparently involved sourcing 5,000 miniature flower buttons that make up part of the floor.

Luckily, the time and money has paid off, with the revenge floor reportedly giving Sonia daily doses of joy:

Some of them are my ex-husband’s. It amuses me, it makes me laugh every time I walk in the kitchen and see them.

Each section is bordered by small tiles because I didn’t want to do it all in one go so I could still use my kitchen.

Sonia kicked the project off in October 2018 after opting for a complete overhaul to her kitchen, installing a new floor, worktops, doors, drawers, kick-board and architrave in the process.

Alongside other items, she chose to include some vinyl from her ex-husband’s collection, making each part of the floor in small stages so she could carry on using her kitchen.

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Steve Warden »

Some background music while I work on the Bill's.
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Take care and God bless,

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Ridgegrass »

KNIFE7NUT : Going through some old posts and saw yours on Jack Scott. He had a cool , low voice. Our band was ready to record his old hit, "Burning Bridges" then we broke up ! Last year a lady friend of ours gave me a pair of 1960's Bozaks. They were her Dad's and she almost put them on the dump!
I have lots of vinyl in great shape and I'm sure you can appreciate how it sounds on those Bozak's. They're hanging in my shop. Doesn't take a lot of wattage to drive them, but they weigh about 60 lbs. apiece. Hence, the ropes holding them up. Lucky me ! :D J.O'.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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I love all the old hillbilly stuff on Starday and king labels. Real country music, by god!
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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Dobrp59: Are you a Dobro player? I was in two bands with the great Mike Auldridge for ten years. What a player and what a guy. Miss him every day. J.O'.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by dobro59 »

Yes sir i am , but am amateur compared to Mike. He and Jerry Douglas are my favorites. I play mostly by tab, but i stil love it!!
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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::tu:: Stay with it. J.O'.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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Ever heard of Josh Swift ? Played with Doyle Lawson for a few years. He's a hoss! J.O'.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Jacknifeben »

How about Smiley Burnett singing Catfish take a look at that worm!
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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Smiley Burnett! Now that's going back a ways! to the likes of Gene Autry, Ray Whitley, (with and for whom Gibson designed and built the first SJ-200 guitar in 1937), Jimmy Wakely, Roy Rogers. All the great "Singin' Cowboys". ::tu:: J.O'.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Challenger007 »

I love vinyl records. My parents put together a good collection at one time. To listen to it, I have a completely modern vinyl turntable. The old one broke down about a year ago, but recently we bought an Audio-Technica Fully Automatic Belt-Drive Stereo Turntable. Here is a review of our turntable, if anyone is interested.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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dobro59 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:47 am I love all the old hillbilly stuff on Starday and king labels. Real country music, by god!
You might like Sid King, who was an early “Rockabilly” pioneer from the 50’s. When he wasn’t performing with his band he was a barber (his real name is Sid Erwin) who owned a barber shop in my hometown, and used to cut my hair. The barber shop was a mini-museum with a lot of memorabilia including “bills” from the Big D Jamboree and the Louisiana Hayride, among others. One of which had his band, Sid King and the Fivestrings, as the featured headline act, and one of the second bill, opening acts was some guy named Elvis Presley. ::woot:: Sid’s brother Billy was also in the band (lead guitar) and also a barber in the same shop. Often when not cutting hair they jammed in the shop.

Ken

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by Ridgegrass »

Beautiful old Gibson, looks like a J-100.. Nice old Strat too. Big $$$$$ today!!! J.O'.
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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

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They were rock and roll pioneers, unfortunately unknown by most. For those interested here’s some more about Sid King and the band. http://www.rockabillyhall.com/SidKing1.html At least into the 1990s they were still touring occasionally, mainly in Europe and England where they were more well known. Sid was an avid bass fisherman and retired to East Texas sometime around 2000. Billy continued cutting hair for several years but sadly passed away a couple of years ago. The last time I went by the old barber shop it had closed.

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Re: Let's talk Vinyl Music.

Post by dobro59 »

Hey, mumbleypeg , yes i like sid king and the 5 strings. Cool that he was your barber!!!
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