New York Cutlery Co.

[celluloidheros]

I'm interested in NYCC knives. These were knives made around 1896 by John W Schatt and CB Morgan. Some of them were made in Germany and are marked New York Cutlery Co. "Made in Germany" on the reverse others were made when the Company first moved from New York City to Gowanda. and say New York Cutlery Co or New York Cutlery co. New York. The early Schatt and Morgan Knives made in New york were marked with the S cross M New York. New York Cutlery co knives are an important part of any early Schatt and Morgan collection.

Morgan was from Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh I believe and Morgan was from New york, Gowanda.

When they first started the companies name was New York Cutlery company and the initially marked knives this way but soon changed over to marking them Schatt and Morgan or "S x M".

Knives marked New york Cutlery Co. are extremely rare and are similar in rarity to New York Knife Mattawan or a Holley Salisbury.

The Gownada Factory was owned by CW Platts and Sons Cutlery before New York Cutlery Co purchased it and Moved in in the summer of 1897. this was a small factory and Schatt used modern machinery to make up for the small size.

I have attached a picture of 1 of the 2 NYCC knives that I have ever seen.

[1967redrider]

I have this C Platts & Sons, Gowanda, NY and inked Germany on the mark side. No idea who made it, when or what pattern it is.

[celluloidheros]

Hello, I believe your knife was made in the 1990's by Jim parker and Company. Tennessee River Valley Knife Assoc (TRVKA) commissioned Queen and others to build them a line of Family Tree Knives going back to the WR Case name. Tennessee River Valley Knife Assoc owned the Trade marks to many old names and made repros. I have attached two Crandalls that i own. i also have some LVKA's these knives are nice but the German inking can be easily removed and unsuspecting buyers might mistake these for Old knives. its quite easy to tell look for spin pins instead of hammered pins. (spinning came about 1915 ish). Look for shields that are surface mounted and not inlaid or no shields at all. look for blades that are not hand forged (case bros) The swedging on the older knives is much nicer. What is swedge/swedging? The swedge is : The area along the spine of a blade, starting at the tip and generally extending about one-third of the way toward the tang, which is beveled somewhat creating a “false” (unsharpened) edge. On multiple-bladed knives it allows access to the nail nicks of parallel blades

[1967redrider]

Thanks for the info, c.h.

[Gunsil]

DC, that is a beautiful rare knife you show!! Definitely a hard mark to find and one few even know existed! John, easy to tell your knife is modern by the lack of nice blade top grinds (swedge is a misnomer) and the atrocious long pull on the small blade. Any Gowanda stamp is a rare find if original.

[1967redrider]

DC, that is a beautiful rare knife you show!! Definitely a hard mark to find and one few even know existed! John, easy to tell your knife is modern by the lack of nice blade top grinds (swedge is a misnomer) and the atrocious long pull on the small blade. Any Gowanda stamp is a rare find if original.

Thanks, Gene. Not to derail the OP, but do you think Parker had this made in the Olbertz factory? I've yet to come across something like it.

[peanut740]

DC, that is a beautiful rare knife you show!! Definitely a hard mark to find and one few even know existed! John, easy to tell your knife is modern by the lack of nice blade top grinds (swedge is a misnomer) and the atrocious long pull on the small blade. Any Gowanda stamp is a rare find if original.

Thanks, Gene. Not to derail the OP, but do you think Parker had this made in the Olbertz factory? I've yet to come across something like it.

Yes,Olbertz.He had a few different tang stamps that he used and sold thru his catalogs.

[RobesonsRme.com]

You might check with David Clark. He is a member here.

[1967redrider]

DC, that is a beautiful rare knife you show!! Definitely a hard mark to find and one few even know existed! John, easy to tell your knife is modern by the lack of nice blade top grinds (swedge is a misnomer) and the atrocious long pull on the small blade. Any Gowanda stamp is a rare find if original.

Thanks, Gene. Not to derail the OP, but do you think Parker had this made in the Olbertz factory? I've yet to come across something like it.

Yes,Olbertz.He had a few different tang stamps that he used and sold thru his catalogs.

Thanks for the info, Roger.

[knowtracks]

I'm interested in NYCC knives. These were knives made around 1896 by John W Schatt and CB Morgan. Some of them were made in Germany and are marked New York Cutlery Co. "Made in Germany" on the reverse others were made when the Company first moved from New York City to Gowanda. and say New York Cutlery Co or New York Cutlery co. New York. The early Schatt and Morgan Knives made in New york were marked with the S cross M New York. New York Cutlery co knives are an important part of any early Schatt and Morgan collection.

Morgan was from Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh I believe and Morgan was from New york, Gowanda.

When they first started the companies name was New York Cutlery company and the initially marked knives this way but soon changed over to marking them Schatt and Morgan or "S x M".

Knives marked New york Cutlery Co. are extremely rare and are similar in rarity to New York Knife Mattawan or a Holley Salisbury.

The Gownada Factory was owned by CW Platts and Sons Cutlery before New York Cutlery Co purchased it and Moved in in the summer of 1897. this was a small factory and Schatt used modern machinery to make up for the small size.

I have attached a picture of 1 of the 2 NYCC knives that I have ever seen.

This thread belongs in the Schatt and Morgan sub-forum! In fact if you don't start one over there DC, I will!
Both Charles B. Morgan and John W. Schatt worked in the cutlery industry. Mr. Schatt was strictly in sales while Mr. Morgan also had some floor experience. David Krauss in his book "American Pockknives" goes into this beginning partnership in some detail.
At first NYCC was strictly an "import" firm getting there knives from Germany and England. But soon the U.S. Govt imposed tariffs that made importing unprofitable so they decided to make knives here in the states.
I do believe yours is the 1st N.Y. tang stamp I have seen!
I have a couple that are imports from Germany. The New York Cutlery Co. was a very short lived stamp, perhaps a year but certainly no more than 2, as the company switched to the S&M tang stamp. Even the small pen blade display I have that says NYCC on the top has S&M tang stamps on the finished blades. Both the display and the 2 pocketknives that I have were in David Clark's collection. As most everyone knows David is one of the foremost experts on Queen/ Schatt and Morgan Companies. The 2 original catalogs that David reproduced, 1903 and 1907 the `03 catalog has all Gowanda, NY tang stamps because they had just moved the T-ville.

Dave

[celluloidheros]

Hello, I know of 1 other new york cutlery co NY knife, It is also a pearl handled knife. Its a nice pattern. Its possible that the New York Cutlery Co. knives were made in Gowanda. Another scenario is that Schatt and morgan went around to existing New York firms and had them make some knives for them. Maybe they were thinking about buying knives from New York instead of Germany. I know who I would pick as the Manufacturer. But Maybe we should move this thread to the SM section. Can you help me do that ?

[Karl8]

Such a nice collection of knives!

[knowtracks]

Thank You to the Mod who moved this thread! Merry Christmas to ALL!!
Here are a couple closer shots of the German made knives that I acquired from David Clark....

Dave

[knowtracks]

A colorful straight razor that I found this year.....

Dave

[celluloidheros]

there you go boys, We have a nice little collection going.

[knowtracks]

Let's see if I can get this to work.......

Dave

[nifbuf]

I wrote a history of the New York Cutlery Co published on page 20 of the January 2017 issue of Knife Magazine, page 20, which should answer a number of the question raised here. I wrote of the effort by Rowe, Babcock & Post to trademark the name “New York Cutlery Co.” but was denied by the U. S. Patent and Trademark Office. When the article was published I was still searching for the mark and I finally located it with the help of a librarian at Georgia Tech and missed getting it in the article. I am showing it here for the first time. Hope you can get your hands on the copy of Knife Magazine. You will read there were two New York Cutlery Companies, one Rowe, Babcock, & Post started in 1875 lasting only a year or so and the second owned by Morgan and Schatt in 1895.
Most of, if not all, of the U. S. made knives marked New York Cutlery Co. that Morgan and Schatt sold were manufactured by the Canastota Knife Co., Canastota. That part of the story in also in the article.

[knowtracks]

Thank You David!
I had forgotten about that article. It's still a good and informative read. I thought it was interesting that the large wooden display knife that you included in your article, and the one I posted above, clearly says New York Cutlery but the wooden tangs have a S&M stamp. Just like the pen blade display that I acquired from you.
Thank You for all your work, research and information that you have preserved and shared with the rest of us!

Dave

[1967redrider]

Awesome knife history lesson, thank you!

[knowtracks]

Here are a few blades that David Clark tracked down in an old garage in Canastota N.Y.

I like the " I cut " stamp!

Dave

[nifbuf]

I no longer have this large advertising Schatt & Morgan Gowanda display knife but here are some pictures of it.

[edge213]

I no longer have this large advertising Schatt & Morgan Gowanda display knife but here are some pictures of it.New York Cutlery Display knife 010.jpg

Awesome. I would love to have something like that.