IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
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IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
Howdy,
I’m a new admirer of the Schatt & Morgan knives that Queen put out, but am definitely lacking background, and am very leery of what I see on eBay being promoted as File & Wire
Is there a good summary out there somewhere that describes what should be found in each of the series....ie shield, etching, tang stamp, etc
Thanks
Ed
I’m a new admirer of the Schatt & Morgan knives that Queen put out, but am definitely lacking background, and am very leery of what I see on eBay being promoted as File & Wire
Is there a good summary out there somewhere that describes what should be found in each of the series....ie shield, etching, tang stamp, etc
Thanks
Ed
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Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
You can try traditionalpocketknives.com . This is Clarence Risner's site that has a lot of good info he is the one that started the Wire & File from Schatt & Morgan
Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
You can find the information you need by perusing the various Queen Cutlery catalogs, flyers, and advertisements available for download on the Queen Cutlery History website.CampbellAr2 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 3:06 pm Howdy,
I’m a new admirer of the Schatt & Morgan knives that Queen put out, but am definitely lacking background, and am very leery of what I see on eBay being promoted as File & Wire
Is there a good summary out there somewhere that describes what should be found in each of the series....ie shield, etching, tang stamp, etc
Thanks
Ed
Here: https://queencutleryhistory.com/index.p ... -catalogs/
and
Here: https://queencutleryhistory.com/index.php/flyers-ads/
In my opinion, Queen Cutlery History is by far the best online resource for all things Queen…
Queen Cutlery History homepage: https://queencutleryhistory.com/
Good luck & good health…
Josh
.
Josh
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“Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature, unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping.”
— Hubert Reeves
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“Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature, unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping.”
— Hubert Reeves
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Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
Many thanks!
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Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
Of course these knives were made by Queen Cutlery, but actually when Queen bought the S&M building, contents and trademark at a sheriff's auction in August of 1933, they just moved right in!
So these knives and actually all the Queen knives stamped Schatt and Morgan were made with the same dies, tooling and set up that original S&M's were. Made in the exact same way at the exact same stations, using the same exact process, hand made knives!
Queen resurrected the S&M line/stamp in 1991 with their Annual Reproduction Series or Keystone Series.
Bill Howard was the Master Cutler at Queen then and the S&M line was made during his hay-day. They are some of the best traditional pocketknives ever made in both function and fit-finish IMO. And in older patterns nobody else was making.
For those of you who don't know, the "File and Wire Tested" is an exclusive trademark of Schatt and Morgan and is in reference to an old tempering process used before Rockwell hardness testing evolved. A new file was used to cut into a blade, showing that the steel was not to hard and brittle, and testing the edge by cutting a wire of a certain consistency and hardness.
The File and Wire Series started in 1998 with the 1st offering a Folding Hunter.
There were 5 patterns in Series #1, I believe each pattern was only produced for 6 months before moving on to the next pattern. The Hunter was the only knife not offered in ATS-34 but rather 440C or 420HC depending on who you talk to. All 5 patterns in Series #1 had Brunt Red Worm groove jigged bone covers, nickle silver bolsters and a Saturn shield.
Folding Hunter, Pattern #041883 The 2nd knife is a Clip point swing guard Lockback...... #04111L
The 3rd knife is an English Jack.... #042229 The rest to follow...
Dave
So these knives and actually all the Queen knives stamped Schatt and Morgan were made with the same dies, tooling and set up that original S&M's were. Made in the exact same way at the exact same stations, using the same exact process, hand made knives!
Queen resurrected the S&M line/stamp in 1991 with their Annual Reproduction Series or Keystone Series.
Bill Howard was the Master Cutler at Queen then and the S&M line was made during his hay-day. They are some of the best traditional pocketknives ever made in both function and fit-finish IMO. And in older patterns nobody else was making.
For those of you who don't know, the "File and Wire Tested" is an exclusive trademark of Schatt and Morgan and is in reference to an old tempering process used before Rockwell hardness testing evolved. A new file was used to cut into a blade, showing that the steel was not to hard and brittle, and testing the edge by cutting a wire of a certain consistency and hardness.
The File and Wire Series started in 1998 with the 1st offering a Folding Hunter.
There were 5 patterns in Series #1, I believe each pattern was only produced for 6 months before moving on to the next pattern. The Hunter was the only knife not offered in ATS-34 but rather 440C or 420HC depending on who you talk to. All 5 patterns in Series #1 had Brunt Red Worm groove jigged bone covers, nickle silver bolsters and a Saturn shield.
Folding Hunter, Pattern #041883 The 2nd knife is a Clip point swing guard Lockback...... #04111L
The 3rd knife is an English Jack.... #042229 The rest to follow...
Dave
I don't speak no Flathead ya know!
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Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
4th knife is a Swaybelly Trapper #042101
Dave
5th and last knife of the 1st Series is a Toothpick #041120
The second series next! Dave
I don't speak no Flathead ya know!
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Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
The Second Series also had 5 patterns. They all have brighter Red Worm groove jigged bone covers, not burnt like in the 1st Series. Same S&M Saturn shield, N/S bolsters, ATS-34 blade steel. My pics are pretty dark, the bone color shows up best on the Teardrop.
1st knife is a Reverse Gunstock Stockman #043150 2nd knife is a Teardrop Jack #042206 3rd knife is a Signature Bolster Congress #044431 4th knife is a Spear point Swing Guard Lockback #04121L 5th knife is a Signature Bolster Sunfish #042265
Dave
1st knife is a Reverse Gunstock Stockman #043150 2nd knife is a Teardrop Jack #042206 3rd knife is a Signature Bolster Congress #044431 4th knife is a Spear point Swing Guard Lockback #04121L 5th knife is a Signature Bolster Sunfish #042265
Dave
I don't speak no Flathead ya know!
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Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
The 3rd Series also had 5 knives, they sport Goldenroot Wormgroove jigged bone handles, Saturn shield and N/S blosters.
1st knife Queen calls a "Mountain Man" it is a lock back #04113L 2nd knife is a Signature Bolster English Jack #042129 3rd knife is a Gunstock #041140 4th knife is a Sleeveboard Whittler #043213 5th knife is a smaller Toothpick than was released in the 1st Series. #041812 Dave
1st knife Queen calls a "Mountain Man" it is a lock back #04113L 2nd knife is a Signature Bolster English Jack #042129 3rd knife is a Gunstock #041140 4th knife is a Sleeveboard Whittler #043213 5th knife is a smaller Toothpick than was released in the 1st Series. #041812 Dave
I don't speak no Flathead ya know!
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Re: IDing various series of S&M File & Wire knifes?
I knew that I had posted all these knives someplace before.....
So here's a link that's on the "Queen" forum!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=15462
Perhaps one of the mods can move these relevant threads over here?
Dave
So here's a link that's on the "Queen" forum!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=15462
Perhaps one of the mods can move these relevant threads over here?
Dave
I don't speak no Flathead ya know!