so I gotta ask...

A place to discuss & share pictures of counterfeit knives. Please be sure to alert the AAPK community if you spot one. Also make sure to ask questions if you are not certain about the authenticity of a knife you are considering buying or selling. There are plenty of great people here willing to help.
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jerryd6818
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by jerryd6818 »

Thanks farside. That needed to be said.
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rea1eye
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by rea1eye »

Many great posts here. You are spot on Jerry.

I previously had a Case knife that had bad scales, and I
thought about doing something entirely different for replacement,
After much thought, I had the original type scales replaced. I am glad I did.
I don't consider it fake at all- just refurbished.

If only all these mechanics making fake knives would just offer their
services to restore to original condition or new different materials
there would be very few old knives looking bad ( unless you are in to that look).

Bob
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by jerryd6818 »

But Robert. You know it's all about the money.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
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bestgear
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by bestgear »

I'm working right now with a well respected knife artisan on this site to create a replica/memorial/tribute knife that is impossible to locate an original. Throughout the blue printing we have always maintained a position that the knife would be marked in an inconspicuous manner denoting its true provenance. In my humble opinion we are not counterfeiting but rather allowing others to expand their knowledge and vision through a knife that otherwise would remain a ghost.
Tom
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by Mumbleypeg »

IMHO there's a BIG difference between refurbishing an old knife with genuine parts of the same vintage and from the same pattern, versus altering a blade by grinding off one stamp and replacing it with another. Even replacing a broken handle of one knife with a good handle piece from another of the same vintage is okay with me so long as it's bone for bone or similar and not, say, stag for bone.

The cardinal sin is misrepresenting the knife to be something it is not, so it can be sold or traded for profit to some unsuspecting buyer. There are some who view this as a game, to see if they can swindle someone else, and they really don't think there is any harm in it. They think it's funny when they can fool someone, to the point they even brag about it to others. I knew a couple of old guys (knife traders) in the distant, pre-Internet past, that had a saying when they had successfully cheated someone: "I really put the britches on that guy!" I've wondered about the origin of that saying. ::shrug::

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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by Jacknifeben »

I have a Cattaraugus invoice from 1916 and the first line reads blades replaced on a 22919, 22916, and a 22356. That should mean that the blades could look newer than the handles. That would send up a red flag if the knives laid around for the next hundred years and then you decided to try and sell the knife as a genuine old Cattaraugus. Right?
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Colonel26
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by Colonel26 »

Good thread guys with lots of good information.

I have customized knives done by a couple of the knife mechanics here. Celluloid handles on an eye brand whittler that were outgassing replaced with nice red stag. I don't consider that a fake. Some tl-29's converted to eo Jack knives, I don't consider those fakes but customs. And there are a couple of case knives that I bought with no scales and had handled with some special wood. I don't consider those fakes either, but customized knives.

On a different note, I have a western Boulder bone scaled camper that when I got it had a blade with no snap. I sent it to Elvis and he welded up the tang, and put it back together. It's all original and now has snap. Personally I consider this one an original knife. Just brought back to life. I wouldn't have a problem buying it as an original knife. Some would.

Those examples IMO are far and away different from some of the sellers who are purposefully passing off their knives as originals when they are complete and total fakes.
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by Old Hunter »

Berryb wrote:So why don't the companies that hold these trade marks go after them? You always hear about the gov't cracking down on fake designer handbags among other things.
Bruce
Buck Knife Co in Idaho targets counterfeits as best it can - most are direct shipped from China and some are very close copies, right down to the box, papers, etc. It is usually the more valuable models that are being faked. This thread linked from Blade Forum is a good resource for you to check on Buck counterfeits. If a Buck on ebay is priced way cheaper than at any US outlet and ships directly from China beware!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... -Sell-Them
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by knife7knut »

This subject is always bound to bring out some interesting points and some speculations.
For instance I bought a pearl handled whittler many years ago that has two blades stamped Henckels and one stamped I*XL Geo.Wostenholm with the back of one stamped C.Langbein New York. All of the blades were in near as new condition.A little research found that Charles Langbein was a wholesale knife importer AND knife repairman in the early part of the 20th century.Apparently this knife had been repaired by him(or one of his employees)using whatever blades happened to be available and were easy to fit.Not quite a counterfeit but definitely a repaired knife. I also have several early knives(mostly scout/utilities) that have had blades replaced.Not exactly counterfeits either.
My one knife that is most assuredly a counterfeit is a Microtech Troodon that is packaged to look like it was made in the USA and looks for all the world like it is authentic.A real one lists for about $450 and this one cost me $40.The seller made no attempt to claim it was authentic and I had never seen one before so I assumed it was either real and he knew nothing about knives or it was fake.I bought it only because I liked the way it functioned and would never attempt to pass it off as an original.
Upon researching it I found that this knife is one of the most frequently faked knives and has even fooled people familiar with the real ones.
As I stated in a previous thread the high end watch industry is literally over-run with forgeries.
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livinfree
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by livinfree »

Fake?
Attachments
Henckels scallop logo.jpg
henckels scallop.jpg
livinfree
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by livinfree »

Fake?
Attachments
finger henckels logo.jpg
finger Henckels open front.jpg
finger Henckels logo close-up.jpg
finger Henckels back closed.jpg
livinfree
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by livinfree »

Fake?
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JAhenckelslargestagautoclosed.jpg
JAhenckelslargestagauto.jpg
joeradza
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by joeradza »

bestgear wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:34 pm I'm working right now with a well respected knife artisan on this site to create a replica/memorial/tribute knife that is impossible to locate an original. Throughout the blue printing we have always maintained a position that the knife would be marked in an inconspicuous manner denoting its true provenance. In my humble opinion we are not counterfeiting but rather allowing others to expand their knowledge and vision through a knife that otherwise would remain a ghost.
I totally agree. In my collection of Schrade wire jacks there is a prototype that I’ll never acquire. It would be fairly easy to replicate. I’d do it so that I could handle it and take photos to show others that it existed. It would have to be marked so that it would never be confused with the real thing. There are plenty of replica Cobra cars around and no one thinks they are the real thing.
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Re: so I gotta ask...

Post by livinfree »

If they presented as a replica, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. Maybe Rolex, Cartier or Patek Philippe would beg to differ. But that's a different discussion.
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