W.R. Case & Sons 8387 whittler?

[Mumbleypeg]

I’ve been watching this listing, which the seller says is a W.R. Case & Sons 8387. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WR-Case-Sons-8 ... Swzd5cgEcS

I happen to have a W.R. Case & Sons 8387, and a Case Tested 5387. The sellers knife appears, at least from the pictures, to be different from my knives. The differences are the shape of the master and the pen secondary. The stamps are also different, the swages and choils are cut differently. See this link for more discussion of the knife. viewtopic.php?f=66&t=61427

Here’s the seller’s knife.

Ken

[knifeaholic]

Yeah...the blades on that one appear to be Cattaraugus blades. Definitely a fake.

[Mountain Man Knives]

Yeah...the blades on that one appear to be Cattaraugus blades. Definitely a fake.

Could it be a Possible Authentic Case Brothers Knife that they simply used a stock Catt Blades at the time, Knowing how Close and Connected the Two Companies were.....that Stamp sure looks Good - Is it Possible - What was the Time Line this knife was Made - Maybe Tint put it together - That Stamp sure looks true - First time I ever even seen one of these 87 Patterns - Very Nice Knives


P.S. Sorry to hear about your Publisher Steve - I bet you there are other Publishers out there that are willing to Help You - Who was the Publisher anyhow - was it Krause

[knifeaholic]

Yeah...the blades on that one appear to be Cattaraugus blades. Definitely a fake.

Could it be a Possible Authentic Case Brothers Knife that they simply used a stock Catt Blades at the time, Knowing how Close and Connected the Two Companies were.....that Stamp sure looks Good - Is it Possible - What was the Time Line this knife was Made - Maybe Tint put it together - That Stamp sure looks true - First time I ever even seen one of these 87 Patterns - Very Nice Knives


P.S. Sorry to hear about your Publisher Steve - I bet you there are other Publishers out there that are willing to Help You - Who was the Publisher anyhow - was it Krause

No, it is a fake, the stamps are awful.

Yes it was Krause, owned by F&W, thanks for mentioning.

[Mountain Man Knives]

Ok - I was curious and not going to say otherwise I was hopeful it was a possibility that Tint and Russell got together on this Build - Tints Blanks and Russell's Stamp - Making it a Rare Bird indeed - Oh well Hopeful thinking -

The Cattaraugus Cutlery Company began as the New York distribution company J.B.F. Champlin and Son, founded by John Champlin and his son Tint in 1882. The Champlins expanded into knife production, and along with William R. Case and his brothers, they formed Cattaraugus Cutlery in 1886, based in Little Valley. The company hired expert cutlers from Germany, England, and other U.S. manufacturers, to produce high quality cutlery. Admiral Byrd selected Cattaraugus knives to take on his expedition to the South Pole.

Over time, the Case family separated from Cattaraugus to form W. R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co., incorporated in 1905. Cattaraugus closed business in 1963. Two separate fires destroyed the building in August 2015 and August 2016; it had stood for several decades vacant (another business occupied the factory's office building, which remains standing, for a time in the 1970s) and had fallen into severe disrepair by the time of the first fire.

I love the Rich History of these Cutlery Pioneers - And their Knives -

[Mumbleypeg]

I suppose anything is possible, but it would be pretty far-fetched IMHO. The seller’s knife is marked W.R. Case & Sons, not Case Brothers, which was a totally separate company. I’ve never seen a Case Brothers 87 pattern or Cattaraugus equivalent either, but that doesn’t mean they never made one.

FWIW, the W.R. Case & Sons stamp on the seller’s knife and the stamp on the one I have are quite different. I agree with Steve.

Ken

[Mountain Man Knives]

I suppose anything is possible, but it would be pretty far-fetched IMHO. The seller’s knife is marked W.R. Case & Sons, not Case Brothers, which was a totally separate company. I’ve never seen a Case Brothers 87 pattern or Cattaraugus equivalent either, but that doesn’t mean they never made one.

FWIW, the W.R. Case & Sons stamp on the seller’s knife and the stamp on the one I have are quite different. I agree with Steve.

Ken

I spoke with the seller and he doesn't know for certain either - here is what he had to say -

Question and Comments -

Your previous message

I am interested in your thoughts about this knife, there has been a discussion on AAPK about it and some conclusions and indifference's in the Blades Used on this one and the ones used on some others - the ones in a couple books that photos have shared show this pattern 8387 having a more narrow blade with a longer clip running up the back of their main blade and yours appear to be wider with a deeper clip and not running as far up the back of its blade - an expert believes them to be Cattaraugus Blades - I like the looks of the tang stamp it looks TRUE I was curious if it were all possible Russell and Tint played a Part in the Creation of this 8387 using Tints Cattaraugus Blade Stock with Russell's Stamp -


The Cattaraugus Cutlery Company began as the New York distribution company J.B.F. Champlin and Son, founded by John Champlin and his son Tint in 1882. The Champlins expanded into knife production, and along with William R. Case and his brothers, they formed Cattaraugus Cutlery in 1886, based in Little Valley. The company hired expert cutlers from Germany, England, and other U.S. manufacturers, to produce high quality cutlery. Admiral Byrd selected Cattaraugus knives to take on his expedition to the South Pole.

Over time, the Case family separated from Cattaraugus to form W. R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co., incorporated in 1905. Cattaraugus closed business in 1963. Two separate fires destroyed the building in August 2015 and August 2016; it had stood for several decades vacant (another business occupied the factory's office building, which remains standing, for a time in the 1970s) and had fallen into severe disrepair by the time of the first fire.

If so it is a RARE BIRD INDEED

Answers Question -

New Message :

To be honest I bought it from a friend of mine that’s been collecting knives for over 60 years and he’s selling off some of his knives he just told me it was really rare I can’t really find much on it either -


I wouldn't mind owning it - but I couldn't see myself or anyone else spending $1000.00 is a little Steep for it only being a Possibility - without some Historical Photo's - Sure looks old though - Anyways Interesting Knife to say the least - And yours Mumbleypeg are very nice - with some Book Proof ~ I would spend $200 though ~ Maybe its just a VERY OLD Lunch-Pail Knife ~

[peanut740]

The seller's of counterfeit knives always seem to have some long winded story of provenance.They will say anything to sell a cobbled POS to some unknowing buyer.Has Steve said,and I in the other thread, the master blade for sure is made out of a Catt.blade,likely out of parts sold after the Catt factory closed.

[olderdogs1]

I see nothing I like about this knife. The kick looks hammered so if the blade is full why hammer the kick? The pattern number has been stamped 1 number at a time and don’t line up. Pictures of the stamps are vague. The frame looks ok but none of the rest of the knife corresponds

Tom

[btrwtr]

Cobbled junk.

[herbva]

Well, thanks guys for the interesting lesson about the intertwined history of Cattauragus and Case. FYI, when I tried to bring up the listing, this is now the status: "This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing."

[Mumbleypeg]

Looks like the same knife discussed here two years ago has made its way a few miles East on I-40, from Canton, NC to Asheville, and is now for sale on eBay again. Unfortunately moving it doesn’t increase its legitimacy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255053989729?h ... Sw6m1gxBZC

Illustrates the reason why fakes should be destroyed or at least permanently marked as such. Otherwise they just get recycled.

Ken