"PRE 1920 Case's Stainless" Fishing Knife?

[WillyCamaro]

How come old sportscolbs keeps on listing these rehandles? He seems to be quite the topic around these parts

[gsmith7158]

Here is an interesting column about the discovery of Stainless Steel and subsequent use in the cutlery industry in Sheffield, England. Circa 1913
https://www.bssa.org.uk/about_stainless_steel.php?id=31

[kootenay joe]

There were many people working on making steel resistant to erosion & corrosion as explained in the link above. First use by the Jos. Rodgers & Sons i read was in about 1919 which was a few years ahead of other British knife manufacturers. It was not until mid to late 1920's that stainless steel blades became regular production, no longer a 'specialty' item.
kj

[Robo]

Here's my message to Sports Colbs. KJ,--dang!-- I left out the stainless steel proof that this wasn't a pre-1920s folder. You are absolutely correct in saying this is the smoking gun and I should have told him as much. That said, I think he'll get the point either way. Who know's if he'll act on it. Frankly, I didn't know he has been selling other re-handled folders. I always give the seller the benifit of the doubt when I'm calling them out on an inaccurately listed knife; and I try to be as non-confrontational as possible because they may not know they are selling a fake or a re-handle or parts knife either. I don't like doing it in the first place because I really don't like confrontation. I do it because I've been ripped off a number of times and hate the feeling enough to do my part in at least trying to see that others don't have to experience it.

I thank you all for your input. --Robo


New message to: sportcolbs
Hi, This is a nice knife but it's been listed improperly. It is a Case Texted XX Era --2095 pattern Fishing knife that has been re-handled at some point. I left the first digit of the pattern number out because we'll never know if it was waterfall, candy stripe, or Xmas tree out of the factory. But we can say for sure that this pattern was never made with bone handles. The fact that there is no pattern number on the back of the main blade tang is further proof that this is a Tested XX era (1920-1940) and not pre tested era folding knife. Case stopped putting pattern numbers on their knives durring that era. Please take this as a friendly heads-up. You have always sold quality merchandise in your store and I have purchased from you before. My concern is historical accuracy. I collect this pattern and you'd be surprised how inacurately it is represented not only on Ebay, but in the collecting community at large. Best--Rob C.

[kootenay joe]

Rob, this seller knows knives well and has been wheeling and dealing in them for years. At times he plays a little dumb, pretending to not notice or not know the knife has been altered. But he does post good pictures. He does not try to hide features of a knife. He is a very hard working guy, sometimes with over 250 listings per week. And he works alone. I think some of the listing 'sloppiness' is because he is too tired to post anything except what is marked on the knife.
Some knifer guys don't like him at all. I do because he is not one of the creators of fakes. He also gets some excellent very collectible vintage knives and sometimes they sell low. To shop sportcolbs you do better if you have some knife experience and make your own assessment based on the pictures. Don't go by what he says. If you get a knife you don't like, send it back, refund, no hassle and you will have learned something about how to better 'read the knife'.
I sold Bill a bunch of vintage knives and a bunch of Schrades. He paid me a good price, more than i expected. He auctioned them and made some profit but not a lot for all the work and expense involved.
kj

[knifeaholic]

Here's my message to Sports Colbs. KJ,--dang!-- I left out the stainless steel proof that this wasn't a pre-1920s folder. You are absolutely correct in saying this is the smoking gun and I should have told him as much. That said, I think he'll get the point either way. Who know's if he'll act on it. Frankly, I didn't know he has been selling other re-handled folders. I always give the seller the benifit of the doubt when I'm calling them out on an inaccurately listed knife; and I try to be as non-confrontational as possible because they may not know they are selling a fake or a re-handle or parts knife either. I don't like doing it in the first place because I really don't like confrontation. I do it because I've been ripped off a number of times and hate the feeling enough to do my part in at least trying to see that others don't have to experience it.

I thank you all for your input. --Robo


New message to: sportcolbs
Hi, This is a nice knife but it's been listed improperly. It is a Case Texted XX Era --2095 pattern Fishing knife that has been re-handled at some point. I left the first digit of the pattern number out because we'll never know if it was waterfall, candy stripe, or Xmas tree out of the factory. But we can say for sure that this pattern was never made with bone handles. The fact that there is no pattern number on the back of the main blade tang is further proof that this is a Tested XX era (1920-1940) and not pre tested era folding knife. Case stopped putting pattern numbers on their knives durring that era. Please take this as a friendly heads-up. You have always sold quality merchandise in your store and I have purchased from you before. My concern is historical accuracy. I collect this pattern and you'd be surprised how inacurately it is represented not only on Ebay, but in the collecting community at large. Best--Rob C.

Just for the record, Case never made any fish knives with waterfall, candy stripe, or christmas tree handles. Yes, you will see them, they have been rehandled.

The only handles used on authentic older Case fish knives were yellow, imitation onyx, and green bone (green bone was only used on the 93 and 98).

So many yellow handled fish knives have degraded handles that many were rehandled in modern waterfall, christmas tree, bone, and candy stripe.

[Robo]

"Just for the record, Case never made any fish knives with waterfall, candy stripe, or christmas tree handles. Yes, you will see them, they have been rehandled.

The only handles used on authentic older Case fish knives were yellow, imitation onyx, and green bone (green bone was only used on the 93 and 98).

So many yellow handled fish knives have degraded handles that many were rehandled in modern waterfall, christmas tree, bone, and candy stripe."

Thanks, Steve, That explains the pretty awful candy stripe handles on a Tested --2093 I purchased a while back. I rationalized one of the crew must have been having a bad day when he hafted those, But I never really believed myself.


Thanks KJ. I agree it's hard to argue the wisdom of "caveat emptor".

[WillyCamaro]

Thank you Roland for correcting us and me
It's like anything else in life, you better know what you are getting into first before taking the leap.

[zp4ja]

Bear with me all as I am a simple man where integrity is paramount to my values but possible I am missing something here...

This knife has been at the very least deemed re-handled and not represented as such by what may be characterized as an unscrupulous seller to some, myself included. I base this on historical reference here in this sub forum. Never have I personally dealt with this seller.
I feel pretty confident in my 7 years as a member here that the purpose of this forum is to inform others of cobbled, reworked, re-handled, counterfeit or otherwise any knife that is not original as it was from the factory.
Additionally, we all or most of us, give a pass to a seller whom has no idea a knife fits that aforementioned criteria I stated in the previous paragraph if they are doing their best and just lack the "knife knowledge". Especially if they relist description or take knife off sale block when politely notified. These people have integrity.
That said, someone whom has knife knowledge and knowingly omits facts for the almighty dollar has zero integrity.

So based on some comments in this post, let me see if I have this straight..,

1. Not the first time this sellers integrity has been brought up regarding LACK OF "full known disclosure" on a knife that has been cobbled, reworked, re-handled, counterfeit or otherwise any knife that is not original as it was from the factory.
2. "This seller knows knives well and has been wheeling and dealing in them for years. At times he plays a little dumb, pretending to not notice or not know the knife has been altered. But he does post good pictures."
3. Has a good return policy if you have enough knowledge to realize he did not fully disclose exactly what he knew that said knife for sale has been cobbled, reworked, re-handled, counterfeit or otherwise any knife that is not original as it was from the factory.
4. He has good knives for sale you just have to filter through all the junk. Not a direct quote but certainly implied on numerous posts regarding this seller.
5. "Hard to argue the wisdom of "caveat emptor". Sure I get that personally but does zero good for a upcoming collector interested in the hobby we all love that gets burned and stops collecting based on that.

Here is my question...

Why even have a counterfeit forum if we articulate and those comments tolerate such behavior? Might as well tell un-knowledgeable new collectors they are on their own.
Yes, they get some knowledge on non original knives assuming they visit this forum. Maybe the name of the forum should be changed to "Caveat Emptor"

To each his own but personally I see this as giving this guy a pass on knowingly selling off knives known not to be factory original without full disclosure for the almighty dollar. As you can tell, my integrity and the integrity of those I do business with is paramount to me.

I personally don't care whom it is or whether he has a grail or great knives I want. Maybe I am old fashioned but I personally can't the past the lack of integrity for the sake of an material object such as a knife. It is just a knife. Do as you wish but maybe if others boycotted buying real knives for any seller, especially ones that know better, they might get the hint that they will not get his business until integrity is restored (if that is possible) by doing the right thing.

To each his own. Do as you wish of course. My 200 cents.

Jerry

[peanut740]

Jerry,I agree.Some novice,who doesn't know anything about knives,get ranked over the coals quite often on this forum. Then some give Bill Swan,aka sporty gets a pass for all kinds of reasons.He has over 72000 feedbacks,which means he has likely sold well over 100000 knives.He doesn't care if a knife is good or bad.He just sells them.Him playing dumb,really doesn't work for me either.

[WillyCamaro]

I think you said everything i was thinking Jerry.
If you are listing something that you know their is something wrong with and don't tell. That is called a lie. Not telling the whole truth is a lie. I go by what GOD says. Thou shalt not lie. Love your neighbor as your self. Think of it as this way, would you treat yourself like this?
Something to think about

[zp4ja]

This has been discussed at nauseum on this forum but for those that are fairly new to the AAPK forum in general...

Over the last seven years as a member here, I guesstimate that like 25% of the knives posted in the Counterfeit Forum involve this seller whether they fall into the category of cobbled, reworked, re-handled, counterfeit or otherwise any knife that is not original as it was from the factory. Could be more, could be less than 25% but that is my best estimate.

So I feel safe in saying, not a "one off" and "give benefit of the doubt" (as I am way beyond doubt personally at this point) situation given the history. My personal opinion only.
You decide as there is certainly plenty of examples, posts, member statements, opinions and experiences to determine your own opinion. In other words, "your mileage may vary".

For reference to my stance and comments....

Unscrupulous definition:

The unscrupulous person is without scruples of conscience, and disregards, or has contempt for, laws of right or justice with which he or she is perfectly well acquainted, and which should restrain his or her actions: unscrupulous in methods of making money, in taking advantage of the unfortunate.

That doesn't sound like a good quality does it? There are of course numerous folks that fit that description on the planet. However, "Caveat Emptor" although sound advice, just doesn't excuse it for me.

Bottom line, I personally cannot in good conscience overlook the behavior as described above in previous paragraph definition and deal with an individual that fits that description and feel good about the man/ reflection I see in the mirror in the morning. I don't care who it is. For a knife or anything else for that matter.

My comments are not limited or targeted to one unscrupulous seller. Not better than anyone else and their decisions are their decisions. I just think if I know a seller is a crook (in my opinion) and still choose to do business with them while they burn the less knowledgeable, I am perpetuating the cycle and actually fostering continued bad behavior on their part. Personally I refuse to do that. Sadly, "dollars do talk"and when someone is squeezed by boycott or sanction, they tend to change quickly. Even if they don't, my dollars or actions are not supporting them. Good enough and works for me. To each his own of course as far as other's choices.

Jerry

[btrwtr]

IMO buying from him helps perpetuate his unscrupulous ways. Cracked handles, frankenknives, cobbled crap, re-handled, fake stamps and the like are sold by him all too often with absolutely no mention of it. I can't help but think there are young collectors that have bought and subsequently found out what they have only to quit collecting knives because of him and his like.

I have a personal "do not buy from eBay sellers list" and be assured sportcolbs is on it. Everyone has there own buying criteria and I won't argue against it but the sellers on this list could be selling the grail and I would not bid. I won't willingly put my money in the pocket of a thief.

[Old Case]

I see Bill slithery around at knife shows picking up junk knives




Joel

[wlf]

Jerry,I agree.Some novice,who doesn't know anything about knives,get ranked over the coals quite often on this forum. Then some give Bill Swan,aka sporty gets a pass for all kinds of reasons.He has over 72000 feedbacks,which means he has likely sold well over 100000 knives.He doesn't care if a knife is good or bad.He just sells them.Him playing dumb,really doesn't work for me either.

[wlf]

Jerry,I agree.Some novice,who doesn't know anything about knives,get ranked over the coals quite often on this forum. Then some give Bill Swan,aka sporty gets a pass for all kinds of reasons.He has over 72000 feedbacks,which means he has likely sold well over 100000 knives.He doesn't care if a knife is good or bad.He just sells them.Him playing dumb,really doesn't work for me either.

[kootenay joe]

Jerry 'zp' says "Why even have a counterfeit forum if we articulate and those comments"
Because it yields a discussion in which a lot of very specific knife knowledge gets posted and the rest of us learn more about the brand and pattern involved.
Re-worked knives are an excellent teaching aid and there are relative experts here for most USA brands so we learn what is true rather than just speculation.
Some ebay knife sellers are also serious knife collectors and some are just 'sellers'. To a collector representing the knife as accurately as you can is important. Our hobby is based on being accurate. To a 'seller' type of person, selling the knife is what is most important.
This does not justify being less than fully honest but it is a fairly common condition.
kj

[Robo]

Jerry 'zp' says "Why even have a counterfeit forum if we articulate and those comments"
Because it yields a discussion in which a lot of very specific knife knowledge gets posted and the rest of us learn more about the brand and pattern involved.
Re-worked knives are an excellent teaching aid and there are relative experts here for most USA brands so we learn what is true rather than just speculation.
Some ebay knife sellers are also serious knife collectors and some are just 'sellers'. To a collector representing the knife as accurately as you can is important. Our hobby is based on being accurate. To a 'seller' type of person, selling the knife is what is most important.
This does not justify being less than fully honest but it is a fairly common condition.
kj

"Hate on and love through unrepining hours
Our Souls are love and a continual farewell"
---William Butler Yeats

Or in this case let's keep on arguing about it--we all have some completely valid points--but lets keep cranking out the CW posts too. I agree, KJ, I've learned a lot this week alone about Pre-20's Case knives on this post and Western States on another. I study my pattern really hard. But I'm up in my head with it mostly; it's good to air it out even if it mean's getting corrected or re-directed--hell--crow tastes like chicken anyway! Plus we're naming the crooked, and the ignorant, and the indifferent sellers for buyers to beware of---and look at all the friends we're making along the way! Safe Holiday--brothers!