How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

A place to discuss & share pictures of counterfeit knives. Please be sure to alert the AAPK community if you spot one. Also make sure to ask questions if you are not certain about the authenticity of a knife you are considering buying or selling. There are plenty of great people here willing to help.
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OSCAR
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How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by OSCAR »

Anything and everything of value is counterfeited today. How prevalent is knife counterfeiting and what do you look for not to be ripped off?
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by doglegg »

Oscar, there is a whole thread dedicated to counterfeits here. "Counterfeit Watch" and it is big business. Go over there and peruse for a while. Amazing the efforts folks go to and equally amazing how sloppy some are and still sell for big bucks on ebay. ::paranoid:: ::facepalm::
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by KnifeSlinger#81 »

There's counterfeits of many brands but case is probably the most prevalent target. It's a pretty serious problem.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Gunsil »

Case or any pocket knife faking is nowhere near as profitable as fake bowie knife or worse Confederate bowie knife faking. Been going on a lot longer too. Any time you get a knife that can sell for a thousand dollars or more the fakers will get to work since even if it took them a week to make it the profit is enormous. Add the older fakes, the altered knives, and now all the counterfeit knives coming in from China and we have a veritable tangled web of misrepresented cutlery to deal with.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by 1967redrider »

Gunsil wrote:Case or any pocket knife faking is nowhere near as profitable as fake bowie knife or worse Confederate bowie knife faking. Been going on a lot longer too. Any time you get a knife that can sell for a thousand dollars or more the fakers will get to work since even if it took them a week to make it the profit is enormous. Add the older fakes, the altered knives, and now all the counterfeit knives coming in from China and we have a veritable tangled web of misrepresented cutlery to deal with.
If someone shows you a Civil War D-Guard run the other way!

New and old high dollar knives are faked all the time, pick up a copy of Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery by Gerald Witcher and do a thread search as suggested. Lots of examples and Case is a big target as mentioned, especially older Case knives that have a high collector value. Even new Microtech and Benchmade knives on the $200+ range are faked too, just look on eBay.

They're there waiting for unsuspecting and uneducated buyers because there's a market. Always do your research! ::nod::
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Gunsil »

Just look at the new thread about the Klan bowie knife!! So many of these counterfeits around.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Maddogfl »

I have a perfect strategy for avoiding faked knives. I only buy knives that no one would be interested in owning, much less faking.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by GSPTOPDOG »

I have a friend that owns a retail knife business and he recently told me he has stopped taking in used items unless he personally knows the customer because he has been burned several times with counterfeit Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc... So some of the fakes are very well done. He is a Benchmade dealer and he said the Benchmade infidel was a model that has been counterfeited so much that he won't buy a used one from anyone.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by samb1955 »

Check out DHGate, they counterfeit everything.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Maddogfl »

GSPTOPDOG wrote:I have a friend that owns a retail knife business and he recently told me he has stopped taking in used items unless he personally knows the customer because he has been burned several times with counterfeit Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc... So some of the fakes are very well done. He is a Benchmade dealer and he said the Benchmade infidel was a model that has been counterfeited so much that he won't buy a used one from anyone.
As a purely philosophical musing:

I am a law abiding, ethical and moral person, I couldn't shave if I knowingly cheated people, and certainly find counterfeiting a nasty crime. So now, the question, aside from the legal, ethical or moral issues is this, "If an expert can't tell the difference is there a practical difference?"
Does it become the case that if the fakes are so good that you are best served by never paying a price above the cost of a reproduction to cover your butt? Although I don't collect Nazi, WWII paraphernalia, I understand that is close to the issues that the people who do collect it face.

It brings to mind a news story I saw last week about plant based meat substitutes. Apparently they have perfected the process to the point that "experts" could not tell the difference in a real hamburger and one made of plants. I am a meat eater but if I couldn't tell the difference, it would not bother me a bit to eat the plant burger. Why do I feel differently about whether my Benchmade was made at a bench in Oregon City, or Ching Po? Of course the next question has to be, "how much of the material and the tooling in the Benchmade was made in Ching Po?" I am a retired plumber and I always preferred American Standard products for my customers. Now, American Standard products are made in Mexico.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

doglegg wrote:Oscar, there is a whole thread dedicated to counterfeits here. "Counterfeit Watch" and it is big business. Go over there and peruse for a while. Amazing the efforts folks go to and equally amazing how sloppy some are and still sell for big bucks on ebay. ::paranoid:: ::facepalm::
Doglegg’s advice is the best answer. Study knives posted in the “counterfeit watch” section here. Get a copy of Witcher’s Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery, read and study it. Best of all examine as many honest old knives as you can. You’ll learn what the real thing looks like, and develop a 6th sense #@$*& detector.

Last but not least, if in doubt keep your money in your pocket. ::nod::

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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by zp4ja »

Maddogfl wrote:
GSPTOPDOG wrote:I have a friend that owns a retail knife business and he recently told me he has stopped taking in used items unless he personally knows the customer because he has been burned several times with counterfeit Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc... So some of the fakes are very well done. He is a Benchmade dealer and he said the Benchmade infidel was a model that has been counterfeited so much that he won't buy a used one from anyone.
As a purely philosophical musing:

I am a law abiding, ethical and moral person, I couldn't shave if I knowingly cheated people, and certainly find counterfeiting a nasty crime. So now, the question, aside from the legal, ethical or moral issues is this, "If an expert can't tell the difference is there a practical difference?"
Does it become the case that if the fakes are so good that you are best served by never paying a price above the cost of a reproduction to cover your butt? Although I don't collect Nazi, WWII paraphernalia, I understand that is close to the issues that the people who do collect it face.

It brings to mind a news story I saw last week about plant based meat substitutes. Apparently they have perfected the process to the point that "experts" could not tell the difference in a real hamburger and one made of plants. I am a meat eater but if I couldn't tell the difference, it would not bother me a bit to eat the plant burger. Why do I feel differently about whether my Benchmade was made at a bench in Oregon City, or Ching Po? Of course the next question has to be, "how much of the material and the tooling in the Benchmade was made in Ching Po?" I am a retired plumber and I always preferred American Standard products for my customers. Now, American Standard products are made in Mexico.
Based on the burger analogy you provided....

If I order a beef burger knowing a tree hugger plant burger is also available, I expect a beef burger. Don't care at all if they taste the same. That is not what I ordered. Beef is what I ordered.

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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by LongBlade »

Short answer to thread subject title - too many!! As already noted fakes are rampant for Bowies and one really needs to do their “homework” to not be taken... as noted above by others pocket knife makes that are very desirable such as Case seem to be a major target as well BUT not only Case - I’ve seen desirable old CT makers such as Miller Bros, one example, can also be a target. If an unscrupulous maker/seller sees a profit from faking or cobbling a knife in terms of time and expense then indeed it becomes a possible target. Importantly in my opinion it is not only knives - many areas of collecting suffer from fakes... unfortunate but true!! In a strange sense it keeps all serious collectors on their toes ::nod:: ... but it truly hurts to get burned! Some fakes are so good that in some cases very experienced collectors even get nailed ... like Ken said when I see something suspicious I keep my money in my wallet... but I also won’t hesitate to get opinions from very experienced collectors if I am on the fence..
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

LongBlade wrote:Short answer to thread subject title - too many!! If an unscrupulous maker/seller sees a profit from faking or cobbling a knife in terms of time and expense then indeed it becomes a possible target. Importantly in my opinion it is not only knives - many areas of collecting suffer from fakes... unfortunate but true!! In a strange sense it keeps all serious collectors on their toes ::nod:: ... but it truly hurts to get burned! Some fakes are so good that in some cases very experienced collectors even get nailed .
Good post Lee. If you want to see how pervasive fakes are across all kinds of collectibles, just watch a few episodes of “Pawn Stars” on television. They frequently have items of all sorts (coins, guns, baseball cards, photographs, paintings, etc) brought in by customers who want to sell them, then they call in the “experts” and it turns out the item is a counterfeit, a reproduction, or a forgery. ::uc:: If there’s money to be made, there are crooks trying to take advantage of the unwary!

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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by GSPTOPDOG »

I think it really good advice to handle as many old or "Old Timey" knives as you can and get a feel for them as a bank teller gets a "feel" for real cash. Don't ever try and pass a fake $100 to a bank teller with any experience (Don't try it anywhere else for that mater) that has some experience handling money. That time processing all those real bills builds up a "feel" for them and when a fake comes in to the hands it is noticed right away in most cases. I think that is true for any collector that gets a feel for what he is collecting.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Robo »

Maddogfl wrote:I have a perfect strategy for avoiding faked knives. I only buy knives that no one would be interested in owning, much less faking.
You said it, brother! Thanks for Sharing.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Airborne 1 »

I find it helps to know who you are buying from ,it means you may not find what your hunting for today ,but to me its the hunt ,not the find. I hope this makes sence. ::hmm::
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by terryl308 »

Unfortunately the more it is worth , the more people want to counterfeit it. I have spent a lifetime around old guns and Winchester model 12, 28 gauges are one to beware off, I think their are more countefeits than real ones. And there are good ones! As the price got up to over $4000 they came out of the woodwork. I donot know the answer to the question, just do your homework and deal only with well known sellers. ::handshake:: Terry
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Ivoryman »

This 1978 Case stamp doesn't look right to me. The placing of the word Case looks too high or close to the edge of the tang, the USA, the huge dots. All looks off to me. Any thoughts others who are Case aficionados? Thanks for any comments you might have.



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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Dan In MI »

Ivoryman wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:03 am This 1978 Case stamp doesn't look right to me.
Even without grabbing my legit '78 Case Trapper for a comparison, it looks off to me, too. In addition to all the points you hit, the dots look too far apart. I hope we're wrong, though.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Looks fine to me. Nothing unusual about the stamp or those dots on that pattern. Nice knife.

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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by edge213 »

I agree with Ken. Looks ok.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Dan In MI »

Mumbleypeg wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:44 am Nothing unusual about the stamp or those dots on that pattern.
Italics added by me. Is that sort of stamp particular to that pattern, or are there others that could be expected to have such stamps?
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

I have two 64047s from 1978. One has dots similar to the knife in question, the other has two dots more narrowly spaced. Not sure how prevalent that is, but the point is, I’ve seen it before. ::nod::

BTW here’s a picture of the same pattern, year 1978 “authority knife” from knifedb.com which is an excellent resource for Case knives of all ages. I hope the site owner will forgive me “borrowing” the picture. ::facepalm:: He owes me a dinner anyway so maybe this will cancel that out! :lol: As you can see the stamp looks just like the one being questioned in the prior posts. Note there are no periods in U S A - a lot of 1978 stamps are like that whereas others do have periods in U.S.A.

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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?

Post by Sweetpieces4you »

I came to AAPK not long ago to sell my personal property !! Mind my own business and offer some Beautiful Knives to the members here !! And selling is what I’m doing at a Alarming Rate !! But I did not come here to see my personal property put on display in a Counterfeit Room !!!
I want to Thank the gentleman ( Ken ) who went Far and Above to defend my personal property !! And I mean that Sincerely Sir !!
The original poster and his cohort didn’t just attacked my personal property, As my personal property is a extension of myself !!
After seeing this !! I may have to rethink selling here and return to EBay which I’m sure wouldn’t be a Big Disappointment to the other sellers here :lol: I have let’s say a few thousand Pocket Knives and Fixed Blades to Sell and I am in Control of who says and does what !! TY Again Ken for a Superior defense of my property and myself !!!
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