jazzygambling at it again

[Mumbleypeg]

Hope no one here is bidding on this pitiful fake. https://www.ebay.com/itm/194272585408?h ... Sw9HVg9fnh

This is not Tested era stag - too thick. Looks like maybe Sambar that’s been dyed brown. Blade shoulder grind lines appear to have been shaved down for restamping.

Ken

[Beavertail]

Why is he listing this as a parts knife?
Is this his way of getting around it being a counterfeit?
Fifteen suckers (shills) have already bid.

[btrwtr]

The listing is a contradiction of itself. Can't be "A BEAUTIFUL 1920 TO 1940 RARE CASE TESTED STAG STOCKMAN KNIFE" and a parts knife at the same time. If fact it is neither and is simply a counterfeit knife.

[just bob]

I actually like the looks of this knife even if it is fake. I would buy one like it at a much lower price to use as an edc, but I don't condone The Jazz man's practices and won't bid on any of his items.

[OLDE CUTLER]

Why is he listing this as a parts knife?
Is this his way of getting around it being a counterfeit?
Fifteen suckers (shills) have already bid.

Since he says that all three blades are stamped Case Tested, I would assume that he is selling as a parts knife so someone could take it apart and make 3 fakes out of it. lol

[Dan In MI]

I would buy one like it at a much lower price to use as an edc, but I don't condone The Jazz man's practices and won't bid on any of his items.

I wouldn't buy from a known, serial counterfeiter (or purveyor of counterfeits) either. Every such purchase gives them a reason to continue their unethical ways.

[cody6268]

This is the question I always ask. Can Case take this individual to court over trademark infringement? Especially when they're selling a knife as a Case that probably never saw the state of Pennsylvania and is likely not made from Case parts even.

While I doubt they'd do it, a cease and desist would be one way to put a stop to it, and it's something legally only Case/Zippo could do.

[Mumbleypeg]

Cody, I suspect they could. But the problem is, how many of these fraudsters can they afford the legal costs to pursue? I doubt Case wants to spend resources chasing down the small time fraudsters. And where do you draw the line between counterfeiters who misrepresent the knife’s identity versus the everyday “knife mechanic” or tinkerer who just replaces broken parts and restores the knife’s usefulness? What may seem simple and clear to you and me is likely difficult to explain to a judge and/or jury of non-knifers.

Ken

[dlr110]

Ken I agree with your assessment, but is there anything that eBay can or should be doing? Most likely knives are not the only fake items that are being offered on their website. It just seems there should be some way to prevent a good portion of this problem. Now that I think it through a little bit I guess I can answer my own question. As buyers we need to educate ourselves better in order to prevent the fakes from ever selling.

[OLDE CUTLER]

Ken I agree with your assessment, but is there anything that eBay can or should be doing? Most likely knives are not the only fake items that are being offered on their website. It just seems there should be some way to prevent a good portion of this problem. Now that I think it through a little bit I guess I can answer my own question. As buyers we need to educate ourselves better in order to prevent the fakes from ever selling.

The problem is too many ignorant people with piles of money buying things that they like, real or not. That finances the next wave of fakes to be made. eBay would need to have experts on staff to review millions of items annually to judge whether they are real or fake. Costs would be driven thru the roof to pay them and some fake stuff would still slip thru the cracks.

[zzyzzogeton]

Ken I agree with your assessment, but is there anything that eBay can or should be doing? Most likely knives are not the only fake items that are being offered on their website. It just seems there should be some way to prevent a good portion of this problem. Now that I think it through a little bit I guess I can answer my own question. As buyers we need to educate ourselves better in order to prevent the fakes from ever selling.

The problem is too many ignorant people with piles of money buying things that they like, real or not. That finances the next wave of fakes to be made. eBay would need to have experts on staff to review millions of items annually to judge whether they are real or fake. Costs would be driven thru the roof to pay them and some fake stuff would still slip thru the cracks.

And the other problem is that fleabay really doesn't care as long as they get paid. Otherwise the plethora of chinese fakes (of all kinds of products, not just knives) companies would be run out of town.

[Dan In MI]

And the other problem is that fleabay really doesn't care as long as they get paid.

Exactly.

[just bob]

And the other problem is that fleabay really doesn't care as long as they get paid. Otherwise the plethora of chinese fakes (of all kinds of products, not just knives) companies would be run out of town.
[/quote]

Can I be the devil's advocate? I believe Ebay is a very safe market place and is working overtime to increase the confidence buyer's should have in their purchases. Did you know Ebay has an authenticity program for certain items?

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee/

Have you ever read Ebay's money back guarantee and do you understand what it means?

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay ... cy?id=4210

The fact that the seller says - No Returns - means nothing Ebay guarantees you will get the item as described and if not there is a very simple process in place to get a refund. I'll share a recent experience of mine as an example. I bought one of those lighters made in S.E. Asia. The seller described it as being sterling silver, though it was not marked as such. They also stated no returns. I knew all of this going in and still bought the lighter. Upon receiving it I took it to the local precious metal buyers and they tested it for silver content. They told me it was not silver. I came back and immediately contacted the seller and asked to return the item and told them of the process I had just went through to verify the lighter. They told me too bad - no returns - better luck next time. I told them I was going to open a claim on Ebay for a return. They replied good luck. Almost as soon as I did open a claim and stated my reasons for it. I got an email from the seller saying they would accept the return and would even pay the return postage and asked me to close the ebay claim. I did that as soon as they provided a return postage label. You don't get this kind of service from an estate auction, rummage sale, or flea market.

The problem is two fold. uniformed bidders get in a frenzy and bid way more than a bogus item is worth and then once they get it they do not have it verified for authenticity from a knowledgeable party and just keep it. Neither of these two situations are Ebay's fault. Both are beyond their control. They are willing to help - if asked.

I have also noticed knife sellers like the Jazz Man and Nashville fleas are getting much smarter in their listings and are describing knives that are made from new and used parts and thus telling the bidders these are not authentic, old items and yet the bids continue to pour in. Is that Ebay' s fault or the bidders?

It is also only my opinion that Ebay is working hard to eliminate some aspects of customer service. Do you think free returns help any seller? No, they cost money every time you get a return. Who they help is Ebay and the complaint dept. If a buyer can click a tab and return an item imagine how many man hours that saves them. Ebay tries to compensate a seller by offering a percentage discount to any seller offering free returns and many do.

Only my thoughts on this subject.

[Mumbleypeg]

Bob I agree with that. The best solution has always been, and continues to be knowledgeable buyers. Don’t spend your money unless you are sure what you’re buying!

It can be fun to learn what a counterfeit looks like. There are many resources available to help you learn, especially with Case knives which are the most often counterfeited. Unfortunately too many who are willing to spend $200 on a fake knife (or several fakes at $200 each) aren’t willing to spend $30 for a reference book, or take the time to learn. If more people learn, the counterfeiters won’t have a market.

Ken

[OLDE CUTLER]

And what about the practice as Jazzy did on this one of declaring it a parts knife? Is that admitting its fake or what is the reason he would say that? Trying to take himself off the hook in some way?

[Dan In MI]

The best solution has always been, and continues to be knowledgeable buyers.

Very, very true. One can also report an item as counterfeit...makes me wonder how many such reports it takes for them to pull an item and/or shut a seller down (even though getting back aboard after a ban isn't overly difficult).

[Mumbleypeg]

The best solution has always been, and continues to be knowledgeable buyers.

Very, very true. One can also report an item as counterfeit...makes me wonder how many such reports it takes for them to pull an item and/or shut a seller down (even though getting back aboard after a ban isn't overly difficult).

I’ve reported them to eBay many times, especially after advising a seller, to no avail. I have yet to receive any reply from eBay, or even acknowledgement they received my complaint. I’ve given up on that course of action. Some sellers will pull the item, or add to the listing a disclaimer saying someone told them the knife is a fake. Others reply “mind your own business”, or “thanks for the advice” (and continue the listing, changing nothing). Sometimes even a knife that was in a removed listing shows up again later listed by a different seller. Once a counterfeit turns up in the marketplace they seem to get re-cycled.

Ken

[just bob]

Think Ebay is concerned about counterfeit knives? Think again. This should have been easy to spot. We've seen this same knife in this forum before.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174809849625?h ... 7675.l2557

[tvic]

I checked - it sold for $306 with 29 bids! The discussions about counterfeiting really concern me. I’m less than a year into knife collecting, so I’m very new at this. I certainly would have been taken in by this listing. I like to collect old as well as new knives. However - although I know it’s possible - I’ve still backed off of bidding on some old knives just because they looked TOO good! But, all I can go by is a gut feeling until I get better educated.

[kootenay joe]

tvic, the stores here at AAPK have quite a few very good vintage knives and it would be a rare event to get a fake knife from an AAPK seller.
AAPK is a safe place to shop for authentic vintage knives.
kj

[tnorton]

tvic, the stores here at AAPK have quite a few very good vintage knives and it would be a rare event to get a fake knife from an AAPK seller.
AAPK is a safe place to shop for authentic vintage knives.
kj

[dlr110]

tvic, the stores here at AAPK have quite a few very good vintage knives and it would be a rare event to get a fake knife from an AAPK seller.
AAPK is a safe place to shop for authentic vintage knives.
kj

I 2nd that, I bought a good many knives from the folks here at AAPK and always got a good deal.