Fake business

[orvet]

Benchmade is very good about helping you determine whether a knife is a legitimate Benchmade or a counterfeit.
I have called their store a couple of times for assistance and both times were able to determine the legitimacy or not of a knife by phone. I called on two separate occasions a year or so apart and talk to different people in their store but they were both very friendly and very helpful. The first knife turned out to be a legitimate Benchmade and the second knife was not. They told me the easiest way to determine whether a knife is a legitimate Benchmade is by the weight of it. A quality knife is made of quality materials, which are expensive and therefore using less material in the counterfeit knife makes it less expensive to produce. If you know the correct weight of the Benchmade model you can compare that to the weight of the questionable knife. The fake Benchmades are generally much lighter and often flimsier then the real Benchmade.
If you are thinking about buying a Benchmade on eBay, a phone call to the Benchmade store may quickly establish whether the knife is real or a fake. I was surprised at how knowledgeable Benchmade's employees are about the fake knives and those who sell them. They even know the names of most of the fake Benchmade sellers on eBay. Things like color and little details like the fasteners used are also good indicators of whether the knife is real or a fake. I was surprised when one of their employees described the fake knife I had in my hand. It was a well-known fake and they even knew the name of the company in China that made it!

[1967redrider]

Awesome customer service and thanks for this info, Dale. The fake Benchmades on eBay turn my stomach.

[tvic]

Anyone done any business with outfitsword.com or know anything about them? The location is listed as Anchorage, AR. No, that’s not a typo on my part - their zip is Anchorage, Alaska, but they messed up on the state abbreviation. Immediate red flag to me.

[Madmarco]

Tim!
I checked out your link cuz I'd never heard of that company, and they have Vallotton, Pena, Microtech, and other custom builders knives that usually sell for US$300.-$1,000. and more for under US$100., so personally I'd stay clear of them.
They look like one of those companies that make clones of others knives in Pakistan or India using cheap Damascus and lots of filework.
The knives look good and will probably hold-up for awhile, just as long as you know what they are and what they aren't. To the companies credit, they do state these knives are "promotional knives from these makers" without saying they are clones.
I have made purchases from such companies before, and the product has always arrived usually after a long wait, and are as described but I tired of them quickly knowing what they really are. There's too many reputable sellers around that we can easily stand clear of the one's who take short-cuts.
They do fill a spot in my collection though! lol!

[tvic]

Thanks, Marco! I checked a couple of scam sites - nothing bad, but two scam sites give them a low trust score - mainly because “the website is very young” and “the owner is using a service to hide his identity in WHOIS,” whatever that means.

[Madmarco]

Using those scam site reports is about the only way I know of to check a site's reputability, Tim, but I've not found them to be up to date very often so they've offered little help to me so far. I find customer reviews to be the most useful.
It's pretty disappointing when you read that the owners keep their identities secret, in which case I will check back in a few weeks after their initial growing period and see what's being said about the company.
IMHO, "WHOIS" is a way to remain anonymous until you see if you're gonna be successful!

[QGofLake]

Anyone done any business with outfitsword.com or know anything about them? The location is listed as Anchorage, AR. No, that’s not a typo on my part - their zip is Anchorage, Alaska, but they messed up on the state abbreviation. Immediate red flag to me.

In addition to the impractically low prices, all of their images sport the water mark of bladehq. There are a few other sites that I am aware of which have shared language, underlying code, similar dates of creation, SSL certificates, etc. Sites such as the one you referenced are blatant scams. I cannot cite them here per the policy of the forum.

I doubt they have any actual knives and instead are fishing for credit card numbers.

[tvic]

Thanks, guys. The big red flag is prices that seem to good to be true. It’s a nice looking website, very professional. And the fact they take PayPal was tempting because PayPal will back you up. But, I didn’t pull the trigger. Even if PayPal would cover for me, I’m just not up to the frustration of dealing with it. As you said, Marco, there are plenty of good, reputable sellers to deal with out there.

[Madmarco]

Another subtle clue for the future is, Tim, to check if the company takes PayPal, because P/P won't knowingly allow sales and shipping of autos, so if they do accept it it's likely a scam site.

[Ivoryman]

Here are three knives believed to be faked. Bridge Cutlery Jack with filed bolsters, Elder MFG Sowbelly Stockman, Chis Reeves Sabenza. I know the Sabenza is fake, paid $40 just to see what it was like and it's like any good Chinese knife, which is decent, for the $40 it's worth that, nowhere near like a real Sabenza. Obvious fake. But the wife likes it with her Kershaw Leeks, says it's a lot like them. However the others fooled me in hand. I was told the Bridge was fake by Charlie C at the OKCA show because it looked to good to be true, too nice, condition too pristine. I think he would know. The seller would have taken it back, but for the price it's a very well made and beautiful knife. And to me personally, condition is not always dependable in my humble opinion only because I have seen many, and I own a few Case knives from reputable sellers who are pristine too from that era. Never used. Look too good to be true but they're not fakes. Anywho, I don't know and can't comment on fake or not with these two knives. I posted the Bridge on the Bridge Cutlery thread and didn't mention this just to have some fun. Two hits spotted it right away and mentioned lack of swedge. I know nothing about it. But I take them at their word and was told it's fake, I will go with those opinions.
The thing that I don't understand is how some factory or guy in his shop, or some group of knife people who put out these fakes are doing so to such high standards? These knives are almost flawless, the action, spring tension, flush at open and closed, tight springs and liners, perfect transitions, run up TEN TIMES better than a modern Case knife or these similar imports. The bone alone blows the modern bone away. Look at the unique and seemingly random jigging. It looks like it could have been done by hand on a machine and how are they getting bone that looks about like old Rogers bone or antique, aged bone. How are they making this and selling it for so cheap given all the time and craftsmanship that must be going into these? They should put their own name on it and sell knives like GEC is doing. This is like an old knife. It's very well made, with great spring tension, smooth open and closed, sweet stout snap. The things are centered, good run up. very well done tangs, zero wobble and feels solid like it will never close on you accidentally and everything. I paid $65 for the Elder, a little more for the Bridge. For that price, and that is all I'm saying, but for that price it's a very decent knife the kind which I wish I had access to more often. Excellent piece in my book. Nothing wrong with these two, I would put the Elder up there with some of the best knives I have. The Bridge close to that. Definitely as good as my old Case, Camillus, Queen, Schrade, Challenge, Pal, etc. So how are these fakers doing what not even Case is doing today on their regular line? I don't know, but these people are making better knives than the last few I bought from Case. For $65? How is that even possible? FWIW.

[tvic]

Ok, got my suspicions about another one - Knife-Case.com. Anyone done business with them? They give an address in Minneapolis, but google maps doesn’t recognize the exact address. Obviously, the prices are great, and they accept PayPal which is a good sign. However, I went as far as the payment on PayPal just to see, and you would be paying as a “donation,” not a payment to a dealer/business. It’s my understanding PayPal can’t back you up on this kind of payment, so BIG red flag. Nope, I didn’t order. So, anyone had any experience with them?

[Madmarco]

I'd never heard of that site, Tim, so I checked it out from the name you supplied and it seems legit to me.
As I went through the checkout short of ordering a knife, their layout seems vey similar to the C. Risner/Traditional Pocket Knives site where I ordered a knife from for the first time last week, and it's currently in transit so time will tell, but so far it's all good.
I checked the "Added Security" padlock and it said all is right at the site.
From the way the site looks and is set-up I personally would place an order without much concern, but that's me.
The prices certainly are excellent!

[Ivoryman]

Ok, got my suspicions about another one - Knife-Case.com. Anyone done business with them? They give an address in Minneapolis, but google maps doesn’t recognize the exact address. Obviously, the prices are great, and they accept PayPal which is a good sign. However, I went as far as the payment on PayPal just to see, and you would be paying as a “donation,” not a payment to a dealer/business. It’s my understanding PayPal can’t back you up on this kind of payment, so BIG red flag. Nope, I didn’t order. So, anyone had any experience with them?

Same thing with me, once I saw donation and some woman's name I did not recognize, I was out of there. I just wanted to buy the knife at a price that was too good to be true and I think it was so when it looked like I was donating instead of purchasing, forget that.

[QGofLake]

Ok, got my suspicions about another one - Knife-Case.com. Anyone done business with them? They give an address in Minneapolis, but google maps doesn’t recognize the exact address. Obviously, the prices are great, and they accept PayPal which is a good sign. However, I went as far as the payment on PayPal just to see, and you would be paying as a “donation,” not a payment to a dealer/business. It’s my understanding PayPal can’t back you up on this kind of payment, so BIG red flag. Nope, I didn’t order. So, anyone had any experience with them?

It is a scam site. There is a sudden spate of these. Notice EVERY product image has been heisted from BladeHQ, the prices are extremely low, and they are all foundationally the same. They were registered this first quarter of 2023, use Google Trust for the SSL, have the same WP base theme, have a paypal plugin, common language repeated across their site.

I bet they have zero actual knives and instead, are stealing payments or harvesting credit card numbers.

[tvic]

Thanks, and I think you’re right about there being a spate of these now. A couple of weeks ago, I posted about a site called outfitsword.com. I Googled their address and it was an army commissary in Anchorage. As I said, the exact address given for this latest one was not recognized by Google. We are all reassured by PayPal payments since they back you up - but that’s only for payments to businesses - not donations like this one was asking for or friend to friend. I’m sure they get all they can and abscond before PayPal shuts them down. And yes, these two sites I’ve mentioned do look similar. Hopefully talking about this stuff on AAPK will prevent some other collectors from getting ripped off.

[Madmarco]

Well, I for one am glad you guys know what to look for on a scam site, my inexperience likely would have had me continue on and attempt to make a purchase.
How do they fake the URL Added Security aspect, you know, the locked padlock or green padlock on the top line?
Thanks guys for being so observative!

[QGofLake]

Tvic - I remember you posting that one and your observations are certainly good. Couldn't agree more about talking about this stuff here on AAPK. It could certainly help others avoid getting scammed.

MadMarco - happy to help. I am a webmaster which helps in identifying things. The padlock is SSL and all that really does is encrypt traffic between the user and the website being served up. It does not validate anything about the business underlying the website.

Mod - I certainly want to respect the rules and understand there is a prohibition when it comes to posting URLs of nefarious sites. To the point made here, addressing these sites here might help others side step these unfortunate sites that are targeted at people who are interested in knives. If it is ok with you, I can post those sites and clearly mark them as scams. What do you think?

[Madmarco]

Thank you very much for that information, QGL.
I am a computer novice so all the terms and such make little sense to me, but now at least I know what an SSL is and a URL isn't, as well as what they are for.
It's very good info to know, thx again!

[QGofLake]

Some progress has been against these miscreant websites. Before, they were all using the PayPal plugin. After some complaints, they no longer are and as of today, have switched to Stripe as their payment processor. Let's see what Stripe does in response.