Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

A place to discuss & share pictures of anything that relates to knives.
User avatar
Tsar Bomba
Posts: 3622
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:14 am
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by Tsar Bomba »

Here's another one for the German Russell tang stamp collection, along with same knife but Boker-branded and clad in Delrin. The five-feather arrows seem to always be a dead giveaway of a German build.
23702846763_b4b091ed79_k.jpg
23701447584_66f086c620_k.jpg
24034087040_7562297fe3_k.jpg
Tony
ImageImageImageImage
Everything's better with a Barlow
lcaseyb
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:30 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by lcaseyb »

I am brand new to pocket knives. I wanted a Russel Barlow for the trivial reason that I heard "Barlow knife" mentioned in a song. This was an interesting thread, but I just forgot everything I read. Plus I have to look up a lot of new words pertaining to pocket knives. Is there a simple list of things to avoid when looking for a Russel Barlow while in antique stores?

Thanks.

Larry
User avatar
bighomer
Posts: 8530
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:07 pm
Location: N.mid.Tn.

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by bighomer »

Larry look at pictures, if you know anyone that collects Russells ask if you can look them over. Learn to read knives , ask specific questions of knowledgeable people, there is no easy road in collectables of any antiques and more than likely you will get bit at some point. A lot of times you can find old used up knives at a decent price study them. Learn learn learn knowledge is king. Have fun. ::tu::
lcaseyb
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:30 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by lcaseyb »

big homer, I agree that I have to read through this forum and learn knife language. I just thought that if such a list existed, it could steepen my learning curve, and save me money in the antique stores.

I appreciate your reply and I will get busy with pocket knives 101.

Thanks
User avatar
Tsar Bomba
Posts: 3622
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:14 am
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by Tsar Bomba »

Thing about Russell Barlows, and lots of other cutlers in general, is that trademarks and factories changed so often and were so undocumented in many cases during and after the industrial revolution that many of these companies both in the USA and abroad never really enjoyed a properly-curated company/brand history. So the entire concept of "real Russell Barlow" might even be up for some interpretation.

There's really no 'cheat sheet' short of bringing a smartphone with AAPK in the browser and searching to see if there are examples and any trivia that have already been discussed. If not, widen your search to Google. And always remember: The ultimate value of any knife is whatever price a seller and buyer can agree upon.

These are my Mystery Russells, both considered for the purposes of this threads "fake" Russells I believe. The green daddy Barlow is clearly some sort of modern knockoff/repro/whatever, but it's built solid, looks good, and has this awesome oversized Zulu spear blade that snaps like a gator. The white bone Barlow seems to tick some of the "real Russell" boxes but has a long pull and that offset stamp on the pen blade where the L runs off the edge. For what I paid the rule "If it seems too good to be true it probably is" seems to apply. Still, it's another rock-solid knife and it looks awful purdy. ::smirk::
30979875286_4f12a3ecc7_k.jpg
31015418095_7b737b5a27_k.jpg
30980127046_adda2d21a0_k.jpg
22836944418_01e62f49f5_k.jpg
30713760300_f3aadd4ba5_k.jpg
30713762060_73b60502e2_k.jpg
Darrellt
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by Darrellt »

When Russell Harrington repaired knives for Bear Cat club members in the 1950s the replacement blades were stamped with the R and a diamond on each side . These examples are very hard to find but I was able to buy one . The stamp is very worn but readable . Hoping to find a better one but haen't yet . I am 75 and have seen a lot of Russells and know the frame is an original . While the 1998 remakes did have this stamp no one should be fooled by those . I agree that 75% of so called originals ran on Ebay are either modern copies or out right counterfeits . Saw one sell for $140.00 as an original that even a novice should have known better . Middle pin not centered and the blade pin was not even close to proper position. Looked brand new because it was. "Let the buyer beware" !!!
aelislaurel
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by aelislaurel »

This was such a good thread - are any of you still active? New to antique Small Russell Barlows but after all the combined detailed info, I've spotted fakes in the wild. But what about this one?

Someone previously said "First Red Flag is that it's photographed on Red!"
s-l1600.jpg
s-l1600.jpg
1. Pins are centered
2. Pins are nickel, not brass
3. Straight tang mark in appropriate font
4. Appropriate amount of pitting
5. Appropriate color and texture of saw cut bone

Looks like the edge has been reshaped with wear over the years... but... I'm still stopped by that RED BACKGROUND.

Real or Fake?
User avatar
Miller Bro's
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 11618
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:22 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by Miller Bro's »

It's real, also the pins are steel not brass ::tu::

Red background means nothing.
AAPK Janitor
369
aelislaurel
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by aelislaurel »

Miller Bro's wrote:It's real, also the pins are steel not brass ::tu::

Red background means nothing.
Was wondering about that - previous poster specified nickel but that is too soft of a metal for a working pin.
Thanks for confirmation! :D
knife7knut
Posts: 10068
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:02 pm
Location: Tecumseh,Michigan

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by knife7knut »

Thought I would post this on the thread. Have it in a separate thread but the info should probably be here.
These blades were acquired some time ago from a friend and there has been some discussion as to what they actually were used for. The large pivot holes,the stamped numbers, and the unusual cut outs on some of the blades(possibly to locate the position of the nail mark)suggest they may have been tools used at the factory. The different stampings may be of help as well.
Attachments
RussellRejects2 002.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 029.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 039.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 041.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 042.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 044.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 047.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 050.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 048.jpg
RussellRejectsIndividualPix 052.jpg
Adventure BEFORE Dementia!
58chevy348
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:13 am

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by 58chevy348 »

I have to chime in and say thank you for all of the research and information on this thread. I guess I might rock the boat with this opinion, but I have never referred to a contract knife as a fake knife. As you all likely know, Case had contract knives made as well. They are genuine Case products, sold as Case by the Case company, but contracted out to other manufacturers. In my opinion, there are just way too many Russell knives out there (the earlier Russell knives) with the non-centered handle pin configuration to believe someone was cranking out fake Russell Barlow knives by the hundreds in their dimly lit garage . I think we need to be careful not to degrade the contracted Russell Barlow knives. In other words, I can see many collectors running to their knife rolls to see if they have been duped into buying fake Russell knives when, in fact, they are not fake. (If any of you want to unload your Russell Barolows with non-centered handle pins, I'd be glad to take those fakes off your hands for, say a couple of bucks apiece! :D )
User avatar
just bob
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by just bob »

I've been wanting to post this for a while and as it is raining here today. I thought I would work on it. There is a lot of confusion about one series of the Russell Barlow reproduction's. The series of 7 knives is pictured and described in Dewey Fergusons' Romance of Collecting Knives printed in 1978 and is copyrighted by him. You can read what he has to say and also look at the pictures of the knives. While Mr. Ferguson states that there is no definitive way to tell the difference between these knives and the originals, in fact over time it has been discovered that all 7 of these knives have the rear pin towards the bottom of the knife. Jerry I know you are handy doing that and perhaps you could circle the rear pins on the 7 knives to show the difference in location between these knives and the originals and other reproduction's. Also note these were not authorized reproductions and Dexter Russell caused production of these knives to cease. Also note this is the series of knives that has a standard size Russell with no "R" on the bolster and also has the daddy Barlow with the off color bone that really stands out from other Russell's. These knives are often billed as old, authentic, and original. They are none of the above. They were made in 1971 and sold for less than $20. What you do see today is that these knives are bringing better price that the Schrade or Colonial Russell reproductions. I suppose collectors are trying to put together a set of all 7? I'll come back in and add more pics of examples after the original post.
Attachments
russes .jpg
russes 2 .jpg
“The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion.” (Paulo Coelho)

Men make plans and God laughs

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
User avatar
just bob
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by just bob »

This is a picture of the daddy Barlow of this series with the off color bone posted by Tsar Bomba. Notice the rear pin.

Another one that is currently (10 21 19) for sale on Ebay.
Attachments
homer .jpg
homer 2.jpg
“The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion.” (Paulo Coelho)

Men make plans and God laughs

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
User avatar
just bob
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by just bob »

This is a good picture of the knife in the series without an "R" on the bolster. Notice the location of the rear pin.
Attachments
homer 3 .jpg
“The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion.” (Paulo Coelho)

Men make plans and God laughs

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
User avatar
Tsar Bomba
Posts: 3622
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:14 am
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by Tsar Bomba »

Thanks for the identifying information on my granddaddy Russell repro. I always figured it was a newer model but never knew anything substantive. These materials are just what the doctor ordered.

I noticed the rest of the spear blades have more of a standard spear profile while the 601 has a "Zulu spear" style blade. I always thought that was notable regardless of heritage.

I'm assuming the Boker Russell reproductions I posted in this thread (five feathers) were authorized by Russell unlike the 70s knockoffs?
User avatar
1967redrider
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 16106
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by 1967redrider »

Frost is cranking out Valley Forge, Honk Falls, Miller Bros and others, but I do not see these as "originals" just because he bought the rights to use the tang stamp. In my opinion he's helping create a situation where reproductions could be confused as legitimate antique knives. They might not be counterfeit but they are fakes in my book, they have no connection to the knives made by these companies originally.
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter
blade objective

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by blade objective »

They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.
User avatar
1967redrider
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 16106
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by 1967redrider »

Reproductions are fine as long as you're not thinking you're getting an antique knife and paying an antique price for that knife. People get duped all the time on eBay with knives that aren't what they're being sold as.
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter
blade objective

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by blade objective »

1967redrider wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:20 am Reproductions are fine as long as you're not thinking you're getting an antique knife and paying an antique price for that knife. People get duped all the time on eBay with knives that aren't what they're being sold as.
#1-If it looks too good to be true .............. it isn't genuine.
#2-If the seller does not allow returns or refunds the knife is not real, a re-due or re-pop.
#3-Only buy from sellers with 100% feedback or study the reason why they don't. It could just be from bad buyers, scammers.
I bought a lot of knives from eBay & as of yet never got taken with the three rule approach above.
User avatar
1967redrider
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 16106
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by 1967redrider »

That should be posted on eBay.
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter
blade objective

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by blade objective »

1967redrider wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:01 am That should be posted on eBay.
It takes a lot of reading in the fine print on eBay's site but it actually does state all these warnings and more info on what to watch for when making bids or purchases.
A sellers good reputation is your best bet to purchase from when diddling around on the Bay for blades.
I buy from sellers I've been buying from for years.
User avatar
Mumbleypeg
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 13409
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:28 am
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by Mumbleypeg »

blade objective wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:35 am They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.
Actually they are not, unless by "made the same way they once were" you mean they have blades, bolsters, springs and liners. Otherwise the patterns being made now and stamped with those hallowed names are mostly not the same patterns, materials or quality as the originals. The new ones come in materials and IMHO hideous colors never produced by the original companies.

I agree with redrider's previous post - I find the Frost "reproductions" to be nothing more than a blatant and shameful attempt to capitalize on those old brand names. (However I guess in some ways it's good that the newly made knives are so obviously different that even a semi-knowledgeable person would know they're not authentic originals.)

If someone wants to make a quality knife that stands on its own merits, create a new brand name. Don't try to run a scam operation off the reputation built by a now-defunct company. Unless you're going to honor that reputation by putting the name on a product that respects the quality and tradition the name represents, don't use the name. The Camillus-made reproductions of original Remingtons, and the current Maher & Gross reproductions are examples of how it should be done if one is going to use old company brand names.

JMO. Sorry for the somewhat off topic rant. ::facepalm::

Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.

If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.

When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.

https://www.akti.org/
User avatar
1967redrider
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 16106
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by 1967redrider »

Mumbleypeg wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:59 am
blade objective wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:35 am They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.
Actually they are not, unless by "made the same way they once were" you mean they have blades, bolsters, springs and liners. Otherwise the patterns being made now and stamped with those hallowed names are mostly not the same patterns, materials or quality as the originals. The new ones come in materials and IMHO hideous colors never produced by the original companies.

I agree with redrider's previous post - I find the Frost "reproductions" to be nothing more than a blatant and shameful attempt to capitalize on those old brand names. (However I guess in some ways it's good that the newly made knives are so obviously different that even a semi-knowledgeable person would know they're not authentic originals.)

If someone wants to make a quality knife that stands on its own merits, create a new brand name. Don't try to run a scam operation off the reputation built by a now-defunct company. Unless you're going to honor that reputation by putting the name on a product that respects the quality and tradition the name represents, don't use the name. The Camillus-made reproductions of original Remingtons, and the current Maher & Gross reproductions are examples of how it should be done if one is going to use old company brand names.

JMO. Sorry for the somewhat off topic rant. ::facepalm::

Ken
It's like you read my mind, Ken.

And before I forget, ::welcome:: to AAPK blade objective, lots of great info here for us knife enthusiasts!

John
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter
blade objective

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by blade objective »

1967redrider wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:40 pm
Mumbleypeg wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:59 am
blade objective wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:35 am They are reproductions made the same way they once were.
I imagine the only difference would be the quality of steel.
Actually they are not, unless by "made the same way they once were" you mean they have blades, bolsters, springs and liners. Otherwise the patterns being made now and stamped with those hallowed names are mostly not the same patterns, materials or quality as the originals. The new ones come in materials and IMHO hideous colors never produced by the original companies.

I agree with redrider's previous post - I find the Frost "reproductions" to be nothing more than a blatant and shameful attempt to capitalize on those old brand names. (However I guess in some ways it's good that the newly made knives are so obviously different that even a semi-knowledgeable person would know they're not authentic originals.)

If someone wants to make a quality knife that stands on its own merits, create a new brand name. Don't try to run a scam operation off the reputation built by a now-defunct company. Unless you're going to honor that reputation by putting the name on a product that respects the quality and tradition the name represents, don't use the name. The Camillus-made reproductions of original Remingtons, and the current Maher & Gross reproductions are examples of how it should be done if one is going to use old company brand names.

JMO. Sorry for the somewhat off topic rant. ::facepalm::

Ken
It's like you read my mind, Ken.

And before I forget, ::welcome:: to AAPK blade objective, lots of great info here for us knife enthusiasts!

John
Thanks for the info and welcome.
I was a member years ago with the other popular knife forum but faded away from collecting.
Rejoined that other forum a few months ago but found it not like it was.
Full of a lot of very ignorant arrogant members who are full of you know what.
I ask a legit question about a particular knife brand and was treated like a mentally challenged person with wise cracks.
That type of forum is not for me so I came here.
So far I've gotten adult intelligent answers from AAPK which is the forum I am in looking for.
I'm guessing, hoping all the members I used to know on that other forum migrated to this one?

I only buy antique knives 100 years or older from reputable sellers.
I doubt there are many old new stock around which brings up red flags with these knives.
And if there are any still around I wouldn't be able to afford them anyway.

::handshake::
User avatar
1967redrider
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 16106
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA
Contact:

Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

Post by 1967redrider »

blade objective wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:41 pm
I only buy antique knives 100 years or older from reputable sellers.
I doubt there are many old new stock around which brings up red flags with these knives.
And if there are any still around I wouldn't be able to afford them anyway.

::handshake::
You should post some pictures here, we would love to see what you've collected. ::nod:: Plus we're all about sharing and learning from others on this site.
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter
Post Reply

Return to “General Knife Discussion”