New Cutlery Company???
- WillyCamaro
- Posts: 6092
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:03 am
New Cutlery Company???
Hey fellars and gals.
I have had a idea for quite awhile, ever since my dad and me starting collecting knives 5 years ago. Fire up my own knife brand/cutlery company...
Like Jim Parker did with Bulldog, Cuz with Fight'N Rooster, Frost with all their brands, Maher & Grosh, A.G. Russell, I can go on (you get the picture).
Maybe revive an old cutlery company? Bring back "lost/old" patterns. Only contract out to premium cutlery makers, Seki City/GEC/Bear & Son/Camillus/Sheffield/Germany/USA/Japan/Canada/ect.
I personally love high quality knives, old or new. I also feel, all those lost patterns need to be made again, give tribute to the history. I would do short runs of each pattern with high grade/fancy handle materials. Carbon/stainless/iron blades, nickel silver/brass/iron bolster and pins, brass/iron liners, traditional blade grinds, ect.
The fellers that started up M&G really got me thinking about it again. And the fact that Queen has gone out of business, left a real void in the knife world.
How would I have to go about starting it all up? Name of the Company, Tang Stamp, Blade Etch, Patterns, Website, Contract Knives, and so on...
I don't have any experience in doing something exactly like this. I do have business experience (started and ran my own farm supply for over a year), so business setup and running day to day operations is no issue. And I LOVE being an entrepreneur! Always wanted to run/create my own business/company. If anyone can point me in the right direction, would be mightily appreciated!
Thanks everyone.
William (Willy) Peter Onofreychuk
MacNutt, Saskatchewan, Canada
I have had a idea for quite awhile, ever since my dad and me starting collecting knives 5 years ago. Fire up my own knife brand/cutlery company...
Like Jim Parker did with Bulldog, Cuz with Fight'N Rooster, Frost with all their brands, Maher & Grosh, A.G. Russell, I can go on (you get the picture).
Maybe revive an old cutlery company? Bring back "lost/old" patterns. Only contract out to premium cutlery makers, Seki City/GEC/Bear & Son/Camillus/Sheffield/Germany/USA/Japan/Canada/ect.
I personally love high quality knives, old or new. I also feel, all those lost patterns need to be made again, give tribute to the history. I would do short runs of each pattern with high grade/fancy handle materials. Carbon/stainless/iron blades, nickel silver/brass/iron bolster and pins, brass/iron liners, traditional blade grinds, ect.
The fellers that started up M&G really got me thinking about it again. And the fact that Queen has gone out of business, left a real void in the knife world.
How would I have to go about starting it all up? Name of the Company, Tang Stamp, Blade Etch, Patterns, Website, Contract Knives, and so on...
I don't have any experience in doing something exactly like this. I do have business experience (started and ran my own farm supply for over a year), so business setup and running day to day operations is no issue. And I LOVE being an entrepreneur! Always wanted to run/create my own business/company. If anyone can point me in the right direction, would be mightily appreciated!
Thanks everyone.
William (Willy) Peter Onofreychuk
MacNutt, Saskatchewan, Canada
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- OLDE CUTLER
- Gold Tier
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- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm
- Location: South Dakota
Re: New Cutlery Company???
I think it is a great idea. But, unfortunately the one thing you may be lacking is the one that is alway the stumbling block on business ventures such as this. To get started you will need 19 tons of money!
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"
- Steve Warden
- Posts: 6320
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 4:18 pm
- Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Re: New Cutlery Company???
Best of luck to you.
Take care and God bless,
Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000
But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)
Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000
But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)
Re: New Cutlery Company???
I have never started a company, so no advice from me about that part.
If you have the money to spend, I think it would be really a great way to express your passion for traditional pocket knives. Seems like quality control might be the hardest part. I have read that sometimes A G Russell sent whole shipments of knives back to the factory because they did not meet his standards. And his knives were good.
I am a bit ambivalent about using a historical name. A lot of those are already tarnished by the current stuff being sold with an old name. Maybe better to create a new name and try to market knives that are so good that a hundred years from now someone will want to revive the name you make?
If you have the money to spend, I think it would be really a great way to express your passion for traditional pocket knives. Seems like quality control might be the hardest part. I have read that sometimes A G Russell sent whole shipments of knives back to the factory because they did not meet his standards. And his knives were good.
I am a bit ambivalent about using a historical name. A lot of those are already tarnished by the current stuff being sold with an old name. Maybe better to create a new name and try to market knives that are so good that a hundred years from now someone will want to revive the name you make?
Mel
Re: New Cutlery Company???
Maybe consider being an importer? The Sheffield brands really don't get much exposure here in the US, or Canada. I once considering possibly becoming an importer for Taylor's Eye Witness, after seeing that pretty dang much, they are IMPOSSIBLE to get over here in the States, but in the UK and Australia, they seem quite easily found.
- peanut740
- Gold Tier
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- Contact:
Re: New Cutlery Company???
Willy,you need lots of heavy equipment,a good pool of employees, a supervisor who knows how to make knives and has the ability to train employees. Most of all a considerable amount of money.
Roger
- WillyCamaro
- Posts: 6092
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:03 am
Re: New Cutlery Company???
Great points/idea's everyone!
Roger (or Ken, not sure ) that's what I was thinking too. I (think) I am trying to steer clear of creating a actual knife manufacturing company. I was thinking more of reviving the name, and getting knife manufactures to make them for me. Like what you doing with Maher & Grosh, made by GEC. House branded knives made by other companies, like in the days long gone. Think of Bluegrass selling Winchesters made by Queen for example. By the way, I think what you are doing is something incredible, reviving the brand/history/tradition.
Cody that's a great idea, basically what I was thinking Sheffield knives with my brand on them. Same idea with Bear & Son/GEC/Colonial/ect.
Dinadan thank you for bringing that up about AG Russell I read the same stories about his issues with "bad knives". His problem was that trying to get good knives from China, in "large" quantities was (and is) super difficult. China for ya I think the solution is low production runs from reputable makers (NOT FROM CHINA!) That way you can control quality a lot easier, while still producing enough knives/money to make a go at it. I have to think on that one for awhile yet.
I totally agree, I think a large part of the problem is Frost selling cheap knock-off knives made in Pakistan/China branded with Old Names. Makes me sick to no end... All he/they care about is a quick buck... not about the history/quality/customer satisfaction. That is NOT how you run a company! Customer comes first always. If you are charging good money for a product/service, then you better be on the top of your game! Basic business "cents".
If I do decide to go ahead with the whole enterprise, high high quality traditional pocket knives made by cutlers that know what they are doing (GEC making knives for Maher & Grosh for example). I totally understand that we collectors/users want only quality cutlery. And we are willing to pay good money for good knives. GEC proved that beyond a reasonable doubt. Also good point about creating new brand. Start my own history... But if I revive a long lost brand, that also creates history. I chew on this one...
Thank you Steve! I'm going to need it.
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Re: New Cutlery Company???
I think that it is a super idea!
As far as reviving an old name, I would research a few (something that has not currently being used/abused), and then you may have to get legal counsel to see if the name can be bought (or do copyrighted Company names eventually become Public Domain, like books?).
If that does not work, you may try a new name. Saskatchewan Cutlery, or whatever.
You might eventually aim towards manufacturing knives yourself, but definitely begin by contracting out the work.
It will be rough at first, because any returns (and there will be a few, for whatever reason) cuts deeply into profits, and you will need a lot of advertising, and taking time to set up booths at Knife Shows to garner interest, and a lot of unexpected expenses.
But it would be FUN!
I personally would insist on:
1 - High quality control standards. Personally inspect a certain number of knives from each batch.
2 - a pattern numbering system that is consistent.
3 - include a year number on the tang stamp, not a code (but that is just me!)
4 - tang stamp on each blade, not just the main.
5 - a variety of shields.
6 - like you said earlier, a variety of older unique patterns.
As far as reviving an old name, I would research a few (something that has not currently being used/abused), and then you may have to get legal counsel to see if the name can be bought (or do copyrighted Company names eventually become Public Domain, like books?).
If that does not work, you may try a new name. Saskatchewan Cutlery, or whatever.
You might eventually aim towards manufacturing knives yourself, but definitely begin by contracting out the work.
It will be rough at first, because any returns (and there will be a few, for whatever reason) cuts deeply into profits, and you will need a lot of advertising, and taking time to set up booths at Knife Shows to garner interest, and a lot of unexpected expenses.
But it would be FUN!
I personally would insist on:
1 - High quality control standards. Personally inspect a certain number of knives from each batch.
2 - a pattern numbering system that is consistent.
3 - include a year number on the tang stamp, not a code (but that is just me!)
4 - tang stamp on each blade, not just the main.
5 - a variety of shields.
6 - like you said earlier, a variety of older unique patterns.
Jesus is life.
Everything else is just a hobby.
~Reverand
Everything else is just a hobby.
~Reverand
- WillyCamaro
- Posts: 6092
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:03 am
Re: New Cutlery Company???
You know Olde, I thought the exact same thing when I started my farm supply business, and learning about businesses in general. I have learned that it is both true and false. You can start from practically nothing, it just take lots of hard work, dedication, and perseverance. All it pretty much takes now-a-days is a computer and telephone. Really the hardest part is at the start, getting setup, ect. Mind you when you have a nice chunk of change to stick down, it does speed things up a quite bit. Only problem is with going about it that way, many businesses fail that way. Ah, most business fail. The ones that make it are because of what I said above. I'll ponder this more, before I decide to take the plunge or not.
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- WillyCamaro
- Posts: 6092
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:03 am
Re: New Cutlery Company???
I think you said everything i'm thinking and more Reverand I am definitely printing this whole thread off, all you fellers are a huge help! Thank you so much!Reverand wrote:I think that it is a super idea!
As far as reviving an old name, I would research a few (something that has not currently being used/abused), and then you may have to get legal counsel to see if the name can be bought (or do copyrighted Company names eventually become Public Domain, like books?).
If that does not work, you may try a new name. Saskatchewan Cutlery, or whatever.
You might eventually aim towards manufacturing knives yourself, but definitely begin by contracting out the work.
It will be rough at first, because any returns (and there will be a few, for whatever reason) cuts deeply into profits, and you will need a lot of advertising, and taking time to set up booths at Knife Shows to garner interest, and a lot of unexpected expenses.
But it would be FUN!
I personally would insist on:
1 - High quality control standards. Personally inspect a certain number of knives from each batch.
2 - a pattern numbering system that is consistent.
3 - include a year number on the tang stamp, not a code (but that is just me!)
4 - tang stamp on each blade, not just the main.
5 - a variety of shields.
6 - like you said earlier, a variety of older unique patterns.
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Re: New Cutlery Company???
I can be pretty straight forward at times. Using a famous old maker's mark is a sucky thing to do. Parker the thief began that crud and collectors of antique knives HATE this practice. I have little respect for GEC for doing the same, if one is making a fine product there is little reason to use a famous name from the past. Better to have a new name become famous.
- WillyCamaro
- Posts: 6092
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:03 am
Re: New Cutlery Company???
Very good points Gunsil!
I think you guys are right about old names. Much better to start a new company and make knives in the tradition of our forefathers. But like anything else in life, everyone has a different opinion about it. We are human of course!
I shall ponder this some more!
I think you guys are right about old names. Much better to start a new company and make knives in the tradition of our forefathers. But like anything else in life, everyone has a different opinion about it. We are human of course!
I shall ponder this some more!
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- Mumbleypeg
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 13409
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:28 am
- Location: Republic of Texas
Re: New Cutlery Company???
I agree with Gene (Gunsil) on this. As a collector of older knives one thing I really despise is seeing an old well-regarded brand name on a newly made knife, especially so when there has been no attempt to make a quality knife with materials, workmanship or patterns representative of the name on the knife.
I respect the new Maher & Gross knives for keeping faithful to the original patterns of the brand and its quality and workmanship as closely as possible, and clearly marking these reproductions to make it difficult for crooks to pass them off and as original old knives. On the other hand those knock-offs Parker had made (with ink-stamped Country of Origin stamps ready-made for counterfeiters) and the poor quality "in name only" reproductions from Frost and others are despicable garbage IMO.
Done right could result in something like the Remington reproductions made by Camillus - quality knives which have become collectable in their own right.
Either do it respectfully right, or start your own new brand. JMO
Ken
I respect the new Maher & Gross knives for keeping faithful to the original patterns of the brand and its quality and workmanship as closely as possible, and clearly marking these reproductions to make it difficult for crooks to pass them off and as original old knives. On the other hand those knock-offs Parker had made (with ink-stamped Country of Origin stamps ready-made for counterfeiters) and the poor quality "in name only" reproductions from Frost and others are despicable garbage IMO.
Done right could result in something like the Remington reproductions made by Camillus - quality knives which have become collectable in their own right.
Either do it respectfully right, or start your own new brand. JMO
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: New Cutlery Company???
There will always be a place in the Knife business for a quality USA made superior product like Schatt & Morgan knives. So If you need some Machines like grinders, buffers, Knife grinders etc. From The Queen? Schatt & Morgan Factory, I have some to sell as I wont need them all. Good Luck The guy that said you need a Ton of money was right on. You will need a lot. Thanks, Gilbert
- WillyCamaro
- Posts: 6092
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:03 am
Re: New Cutlery Company???
Thank you Gilbert! I'll keep you in mind
Very good points Ken Ink stamps are
I'm going to crunch all this for awhile yet, rest of Summer at least You all will be the first to know
Very good points Ken Ink stamps are
I'm going to crunch all this for awhile yet, rest of Summer at least You all will be the first to know
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Re: New Cutlery Company???
Those modern S&M copies of the KA-BAR Grizzly are made like junk!! A dealer friend of mine ordered ten and sent back eight because the quality control was so poor.Gilbert wrote:There will always be a place in the Knife business for a quality USA made superior product like Schatt & Morgan knives. So If you need some Machines like grinders, buffers, Knife grinders etc. From The Queen? Schatt & Morgan Factory, I have some to sell as I wont need them all. Good Luck The guy that said you need a Ton of money was right on. You will need a lot. Thanks, Gilbert