Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
This is a late 1700s to early 1800s Persian dagger from what I’ve found about it. It’s got a carved ivory handle and watered steel blade with gold inlay. My question is has anyone else seen one of these and what is the price range on something like this? I have found some pictures and information about it but as far as price or value I couldn’t find anything. I am just curious because I am wanting to put it out there on market for sale. Thank you.
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Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
Welcome to the forum, Legarre. You can go to Ebay and try searching completed auctions for something similar. That is what I do. That may not work with something unique.
If the handle is ivory, then that adds a pretty thorny layer of legal issues. Probably no international sales or even across state lines unless you want to dodge the law.
If the handle is ivory, then that adds a pretty thorny layer of legal issues. Probably no international sales or even across state lines unless you want to dodge the law.
Mel
Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
Very nice looking knife. Do you have it's proper sheath? Having a proper sheath is an asset, lacking one is a detriment to value. As stated above, it is illegal to sell ivory objects in some states now and illegal to sell much of it interstate although it is still done. I don't know what you mean by "watered steel" can you post better close ups of the blade to help us understand? Why is the leather thong around the handle, is the handle separating?
Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
I am not knowledgeable about these knives but I do know that jambiya daggers are widely faked. You didn't elaborate on the research you've done, but I think establishing its authenticity would be important if you are expecting a high dollar sale.
The one shown below sold in 2012 for $2,600 at a major auction house. It certainly looks similar but I notice that the gold detail on the blade looks more crude on your knife.
If you do have the scabbard is the back of the scabbard decorated or plain? I've read that the back of the scabbard was not decorated since it was worn against the body, but I don't know if that is universally true or not. I understand the scabbards on those sold for tourists were fully decorated to make them more visually appealing.
It's a very nice item and if it is authentic it would probably bring good money. If you don't have definitive information on your knife you may be able to authenticate it if you have a quality auction house near you. Many have one day a month where they will do informal appraisals.
Dennis
The one shown below sold in 2012 for $2,600 at a major auction house. It certainly looks similar but I notice that the gold detail on the blade looks more crude on your knife.
If you do have the scabbard is the back of the scabbard decorated or plain? I've read that the back of the scabbard was not decorated since it was worn against the body, but I don't know if that is universally true or not. I understand the scabbards on those sold for tourists were fully decorated to make them more visually appealing.
It's a very nice item and if it is authentic it would probably bring good money. If you don't have definitive information on your knife you may be able to authenticate it if you have a quality auction house near you. Many have one day a month where they will do informal appraisals.
Dennis
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Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
Thank you for the replies. I do not have the proper sheath it came it. It is authentic and real. My grandfather was a high end antique dealer all his life until he passed away in 1987. The story behind this knife is my grandfather was out dealing with one of his customers who happened to be a Doctor and my father was 11 or 12 at the time this was in the mid 1960s. Well this doctor gave the knife to my dad and well here it is still today. The leather wrapped around it was something that has been on it for years the handle is in great solid condition. It is not loose or separated at all. Very nice knife overall
Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
Beautiful Ivory!!! What a great piece of family history to own. 
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TwoFlowersLuggage
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Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
I think I might try to find a university with a professor that specializes in Persian history and see if they would help you find a proper authentication expert. If you have ever watched "Antiques Roadshow" you will see that there are many people with stories of family treasures that discover that although the family story may be accurate, the business of selling fakes has been around for thousands of years.
Here's a story from my youth: My godfather was a wealthy man that traveled all over the world. He was a larger than life character in my family. On my 18th birthday, he sent me a present: a money clip with a St. Gaudens $20 gold piece (1 ounce of gold) mounted on it. I was really excited - it was awesome! A few months later I took the money clip to a coin dealer to get a value on it. The dealer took one look at it, and said: "That's not real." He then removed the coin from the bezel, and turned it over to show me the reverse. At the bottom, in small print, was printed the word "COPY". It wasn't a $20 gold piece, and it wasn't even gold - it was a cheap gold plate. *sigh*
The point of my story is that just because you know the family history doesn't mean the item is legit. I *assumed* that because my godfather was wealthy, that he would send me something valuable for my 18th birthday. If I hadn't gotten the thing looked at by someone smarter than me, I could have easily gone right on assuming it was real, and passed it down to my child along with the story of my wealthy & generous godfather...
Here's a story from my youth: My godfather was a wealthy man that traveled all over the world. He was a larger than life character in my family. On my 18th birthday, he sent me a present: a money clip with a St. Gaudens $20 gold piece (1 ounce of gold) mounted on it. I was really excited - it was awesome! A few months later I took the money clip to a coin dealer to get a value on it. The dealer took one look at it, and said: "That's not real." He then removed the coin from the bezel, and turned it over to show me the reverse. At the bottom, in small print, was printed the word "COPY". It wasn't a $20 gold piece, and it wasn't even gold - it was a cheap gold plate. *sigh*
The point of my story is that just because you know the family history doesn't mean the item is legit. I *assumed* that because my godfather was wealthy, that he would send me something valuable for my 18th birthday. If I hadn't gotten the thing looked at by someone smarter than me, I could have easily gone right on assuming it was real, and passed it down to my child along with the story of my wealthy & generous godfather...
"The Luggage had a straightforward way of dealing with things between it and its intended destination: it ignored them." -Terry Pratchett
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knife7knut
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Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
Welcome to the forums! You don't see these daggers come up for sale very often anymore I assume due to the ivory handle.I used to see them advertised in old firearms dealer's catalogs back in the late 1940's and early 50's for about $25-$35.But of course you could buy a house for two or three thousand dollars at the time.
The handle of your knife seems to be in remarkably good condition with virtually no wear at all. The details on the figure's clothing are still very legible.
I have one of these daggers that is quite similar in construction and was dated somewhat earlier. Mine was gifted to me by a good friend who had purchased it from someone many years before for $20(which would have been right after WWII).The handle had numerous figures on it and the handle was quite worn and the ivory had myriad small cracking through it.The knife was contained in it's original sheath made of wood and covered with some type of hide;possibly lizard.It looks a bit like pigskin but knowing the Islamic faith's detesting pigs I doubt that it is.The sheath is decorated on the side away from the body and on the rear is a hole which I assume held a belt hook or some similar device.
The unusual part is it also has a small companion dagger that fits into the sheath as well. I sent it to a friend of mine who was a professor of Egyptian studies at a nearby university and he translated the cyphers on the blade as the first verse of the Koran.There was also some cyphers on the handle(as yours has)but they were not readable on my knife.The blades of both knives were of a fine Damascus steel. He dated it to somewhere between 1630 and 1680.He also offered me a rather large sum of money for it should I wish to sell. I declined as I don't sell gifts or knives.
I showed the knife to several people at a local knife show and one of the knife makers;a gentleman who specializes in recreating Middle Eastern knives said he had never seen another jambiya with a companion dagger before. One guy offered any two of his high end fixed blade knives he was selling for it.
So where does that leave you with an idea of the value of your knife? Hard to say as there is little to compare it to and establishing that it is indeed a so-called,"pre-ban ivory" item is a near impossible chore. My best thought is to find someone in your area who is familiar with Middle Eastern knives and get an appraisal from him.Otherwise just make a display for it and enjoy your treasure. Here is a pic of the one I own.
The handle of your knife seems to be in remarkably good condition with virtually no wear at all. The details on the figure's clothing are still very legible.
I have one of these daggers that is quite similar in construction and was dated somewhat earlier. Mine was gifted to me by a good friend who had purchased it from someone many years before for $20(which would have been right after WWII).The handle had numerous figures on it and the handle was quite worn and the ivory had myriad small cracking through it.The knife was contained in it's original sheath made of wood and covered with some type of hide;possibly lizard.It looks a bit like pigskin but knowing the Islamic faith's detesting pigs I doubt that it is.The sheath is decorated on the side away from the body and on the rear is a hole which I assume held a belt hook or some similar device.
The unusual part is it also has a small companion dagger that fits into the sheath as well. I sent it to a friend of mine who was a professor of Egyptian studies at a nearby university and he translated the cyphers on the blade as the first verse of the Koran.There was also some cyphers on the handle(as yours has)but they were not readable on my knife.The blades of both knives were of a fine Damascus steel. He dated it to somewhere between 1630 and 1680.He also offered me a rather large sum of money for it should I wish to sell. I declined as I don't sell gifts or knives.
I showed the knife to several people at a local knife show and one of the knife makers;a gentleman who specializes in recreating Middle Eastern knives said he had never seen another jambiya with a companion dagger before. One guy offered any two of his high end fixed blade knives he was selling for it.
So where does that leave you with an idea of the value of your knife? Hard to say as there is little to compare it to and establishing that it is indeed a so-called,"pre-ban ivory" item is a near impossible chore. My best thought is to find someone in your area who is familiar with Middle Eastern knives and get an appraisal from him.Otherwise just make a display for it and enjoy your treasure. Here is a pic of the one I own.
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Adventure BEFORE Dementia!
Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
Very nice knife very similar to mine. Thanks to all who have replied I contacted a local auction house in Cincinnati, OH called Cowan’s auctions and they sell a lot of high end stuff as far as antiques and military and a little bit of everything. They told me that it would estimate if I sold it through their auction to bring between $800-$1200. But then you would have the fees and all that to pay them. Not something I would want to do but if I can’t find a cash buyer I’ll probably just hang onto it. Thanks again!
Re: Very unique late 18th century early 19th century Persian dagger
I think that is a more realistic value. It is a fine knife, but I have seen a lot better carving on some and it is missing it's sheath. It is also not a larger one and as in many knives, size matters, larger ones generally bring more than smaller ones. Very nice knife.