Define “vintage”

[OSCAR]

Is it just me? Seems like EVERY knife sold is called vintage. Some are still in production, and others are just a few years old. The word is so commonly used for knives that it has no meaning other than a means to ask much higher prices. Technically an antique is defined as 100 years old or older. I for one will save my “vintage money” for items that I choose because I like them and they are offered at a fair price.

[Mumbleypeg]

The topic has been hashed and re-hashed before. Here’s one such thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66740

Ken

[zzyzzogeton]

Vintage is in the eye of the beholder.

Some folks think if it is older than they are, it's vintage. That could be 1995 for some sellers.

Some think it is because the item in question was made by a company that is no longer in business. A lot of Western and Camillus, among other companies, fall into that category. Yes, I know "Western" and "Camillus" are still on store shelves due to the Acme Inc buying the name and having stuff made in China, but to me, they are still dead companies. The modern stuff did not perform a Lazarus miracle.

Some call it vintage if it is a discontinued model. The company may still be around, the product may as well, but something has changed' An example of this is the Becker BK-2. Any of these made by Ethan himself in his garage, or made by Cincinnati Tool, or Blackjack Knives or Camillus are "vintage", while the Kabar versions are not.

And then you have the fools who call anything "vintage" because they think it will bring more money with such a label.

[cody6268]

Prior to 1970, when knife collecting suddenly became a "thing" is what it is in my standards.

[cody6268]

Vintage is in the eye of the beholder.

Some folks think if it is older than they are, it's vintage. That could be 1995 for some sellers.

Some think it is because the item in question was made by a company that is no longer in business. A lot of Western and Camillus, among other companies, fall into that category. Yes, I know "Western" and "Camillus" are still on store shelves due to the Acme Inc buying the name and having stuff made in China, but to me, they are still dead companies. The modern stuff did not perform a Lazarus miracle.

Some call it vintage if it is a discontinued model. The company may still be around, the product may as well, but something has changed' An example of this is the Becker BK-2. Any of these made by Ethan himself in his garage, or made by Cincinnati Tool, or Blackjack Knives or Camillus are "vintage", while the Kabar versions are not.

And then you have the fools who call anything "vintage" because they think it will bring more money with such a label.

I just learned something. I did not know that there were any other makers of Becker knives than Camillus, Kabar, and Becker himself.


On another note, I see Chinese Schrade and Camillus sold as "vintage" all the time. They're not even 25 years old, which is what a car's age usually has to be in order to get antique tags, at least in my state.


And then there's "vintage clothing". It's not worth more because it's old. It's USED clothing! It's the stuff that usually ends up in the dump when thrift stores end up with more of it than they can sell; or charities more than they can give away.

[dlr110]

Here is something I wrote on the subject on my website and in my book.

Vintage
"Now lets look at a badly misused term, “Vintage.” The word literally means "of age" and was originally applied in the early 15th century to the age of a bottle of wine. It was adapted from the Old French “vendage” (wine harvest) derived from the Latin “vindemia” (grape-gathering). Today it has been so freely misused throughout the antique and collectables market that it is now considered a part of the accepted vernacular. Most reputable dealers believe that it should only apply to items more than 40 years of age, but less than 100."

[treefarmer]

I just randomly opened a page of ebay auction knives, 33 of the 48 knives on that page had the word "vintage" in their written description.
Very loosely used according to the items pictures.
Treefarmer

[knife7knut]

OOPS! I thought someone had started a thread on "VIN tags";you know those pesky little metal pieces used to identify your automobile. I'll shut up now.........

[wiseguy]

Ya that’s a loosely used description, if I sell a knife as “ vintage” it’s followed by the decade the knife was made.. example adjective “vintage 60s Queen cutlery “ .

[RobesonsRme.com]

Somewhere in the distant past, I read that "Vintage" was defined as anything evocative of the time in which it was made.

Thus, a Model A Ford is a vintage automobile because it evokes, in the minds of the observers, the time in which it was manufactured. Pretty much probably always will.

If that is true for most collectible items, then a seventeenth, eighteenth or nineteenth century knife certainly evokes the times in which they were made.

Is that also true of twentieth or twenty first century knives? Technically speaking, I suppose so, but the methods of manufacture, the patterns and styles of knives seem to remain steady now, as opposed to centuries ago.

Is a modern tactical folder "Vintage"? It certainly evokes images of the current time in which it was manufactured, but it isn't a term I would use to describe a modern knife, at least not for several more decades and I will probably not live that long.

How far back do I have to go to find "vintage"knives? 1940's and before and to a certain extent, the 1950's.

Charlie

[tongueriver]

I find it both amusing and aggravating when I see it used most of the time. I have to laugh at myself because I have a personal definition that is "pre-world war two." It has become purely subjective at this point. Originally it applied only to wine, viz "VINtage," and refers to the year the grapes were harvested and turned into wine. Too bad it did not stay right there, with a semi-objective meaning. Ah, well. It's all good theatre.

[Mumbleypeg]

I agree with what Cal and others said. The term originated with wine, and ALWAYS had a year associated with it. For example “Vintage 1932”, “Vintage 2012”, “Vintage 2020”, etc. If applied to knives or other items it should still have the appropriate timeframe attached. “Vintage WWII”, “Vintage 1920’s”, “Vintage 2016”, whatever. “Vintage” doesn’t mean old, antique or any such. It means from a time period, and when used correctly should have that time period included. Simply saying ‘vintage” is worthless. JMO. Unfortunately like so many other things, the ignorant have abused it to the point of it being meaningless - yet another failure of our dismal education system.

Ken

[OSCAR]

I agree with what Cal and others said. The term originated with wine, and ALWAYS had a year associated with it. For example “Vintage 1932”, “Vintage 2012”, “Vintage 2020”, etc. If applied to knives or other items it should still have the appropriate timeframe attached. “Vintage WWII”, “Vintage 1920’s”, “Vintage 2016”, whatever. “Vintage” doesn’t mean old, antique or any such. It means from a time period, and when used correctly should have that time period included. Simply saying ‘vintage” is worthless. JMO. Unfortunately like so many other things, the ignorant have abused it to the point of it being meaningless - yet another failure of our dismal education system.

Ken

Ken: I agree with you 100%. It’s not the word itself but it’s misuse I detest. We’ve all see garbage $10 knives that say vintage and the seller is putting a $100 dollar asking price on them thinking that an unknowledgeable buyer will pay the price.

[OSCAR]

Somewhere in the distant past, I read that "Vintage" was defined as anything evocative of the time in which it was made.

Thus, a Model A Ford is a vintage automobile because it evokes, in the minds of the observers, the time in which it was manufactured. Pretty much probably always will.

If that is true for most collectible items, then a seventeenth, eighteenth or nineteenth century knife certainly evokes the times in which they were made.

Is that also true of twentieth or twenty first century knives? Technically speaking, I suppose so, but the methods of manufacture, the patterns and styles of knives seem to remain steady now, as opposed to centuries ago.

Is a modern tactical folder "Vintage"? It certainly evokes images of the current time in which it was manufactured, but it isn't a term I would use to describe a modern knife, at least not for several more decades and I will probably not live that long.

How far back do I have to go to find "vintage"knives? 1940's and before and to a certain extent, the 1950's.

Charlie

Charlie, I cannot agree more!

[OSCAR]

Ya that’s a loosely used description, if I sell a knife as “ vintage” it’s followed by the decade the knife was made.. example adjective “vintage 60s Queen cutlery “ .

And you’re using the term properly.
It’s used indescribably by many people.

[kris_kross]

It seems like everybody has their own personal definition of what it means to them, there ya go The term has been used heavily in secondhand markets for decades. I remember the term becoming popular in the 1980's in reference to guitars, cars, toys, etc. Back then it was often used to refer to stuff from the 50's and 60's that wasn't old enough to be antique but still old enough to be long out of production, "vintage" Beatles memorabilia for example. But like I say, everybody seems to have their own definition.

[OSCAR]

It seems like everybody has their own personal definition of what it means to them, there ya go The term has been used heavily in secondhand markets for decades. I remember the term becoming popular in the 1980's in reference to guitars, cars, toys, etc. Back then it was often used to refer to stuff from the 50's and 60's that wasn't old enough to be antique but still old enough to be long out of production, "vintage" Beatles memorabilia for example. But like I say, everybody seems to have their own definition.

It’s the use of the word I object to but it’s misuse. I’ve seen absolute garbage marked with the descriptor vintage and the seller offering it at a ridiculous price. Let the buyer beware.

[Dinadan]

It’s the use of the word I object to but it’s misuse. I’ve seen absolute garbage marked with the descriptor vintage and the seller offering it at a ridiculous price. Let the buyer beware.

And yet, as others pointed out, the term is perfectly correct if a date is attached (i.e. vintage 2020). The cheapest, worst made knife out of China in 2020 is still vintage 2020. Just like the worst made wine made in 2020 is still vintage 2020. If no time frame is attached, the word vintage is essentially meaningless. Just my opinion.

[OSCAR]

It’s the use of the word I object to but it’s misuse. I’ve seen absolute garbage marked with the descriptor vintage and the seller offering it at a ridiculous price. Let the buyer beware.

And yet, as others pointed out, the term is perfectly correct if a date is attached (i.e. vintage 2020). The cheapest, worst made knife out of China in 2020 is still vintage 2020. Just like the worst made wine made in 2020 is still vintage 2020. If no time frame is attached, the word vintage is essentially meaningless. Just my opinion.

I couldn’t agree more.

[Dan In MI]

I agree with what others have said: that "vintage" is properly used when accompanied by an appropriate year, or at least timeframe. Absent of a date or period, it is a meaningless abstraction.

[cody6268]

Got to looking here; and noticed this dealer (actually one of GEC's bigger dealers) has a long list of "vintage" knives that really aren't.

https://oldetownecutlery.com/product-ca ... erby=price

Some of the Case knives even have the 2020 stamp, so they're basically new!