Zero Tolerance folders.

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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

gmusic wrote:I don't know if craftsman fits.......................artist maybe, with the patience of Job!
Well, "art" does play a role. Not many blade blanks are even from left side to right. Not only does this effect the distal taper, but the flat grind done during stock removal might remove more metal from one side than the other. Knowing that, many guys--myself included--want the bevel to have the same uniform width and shape on both sides. And be toasty sharp for braggin' rights down at the saloon.

That's why this is "the curse." Most casual hobbyists have never owned a truly sharp knife. But once they do they want a samurai priced edge on the knife they slice on PBJ sandwiches.

Right now I have an 11 dollar Ryan 7 that shines like an Hattori. Completely unnecessary, but kind of cool.
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FRJ
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

I took a formal woodworking class from Ian Kirby about 7 years ago. What information he had. I hung on every word.

He was very precise about sharpening chisels and plane irons. I gave him a pocket knife that was made in Spain.

Well, if you want to express yourself at some time there are those who will listen. (and ask a ton of questions)
It seems that you have a lot to offer.
Joe
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

Have you heard of Murray Carter? His "scary sharp" edges are just that! He taught us to place three fingers on the edge with your thumb on the spine, control of pressure being the reason. Now with light pressure try to move your three fingers across the edge, if it scares you enough you don't want to move them, its good and sharp!
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

No wonder he callsl it scary sharp. I would be afraid to do that. As a tradsman I would not jeopardize cutting the pads of my fingers like that.
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

Light pressure Joe! :wink:

Murray was trained/taught in Japan. He's the only Caucasian Yoshimoto Bladesmith. He is also a Mastersmith by US standards. Check out his web site:

http://www.cartercutlery.com/

I took a course in neck knife making from him.................just amazing!
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

This is the neck knife I made while I was there at Carters shop. I use it often and it will still shave hair from a peach.
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

I have to say the introduction was impressive, gmusic.
That knife you made is really nice.
For me, I've never liked any thing around my neck like that, but it's a good way to hide a knife.
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

Thanks FJR. If worn outside the shirt it's real handy, around town though people look at you funny.

The premise with the three finger test is that those pads are very sensitive and as you start to slide them on the edge they will instantly tell you whether you can or can not continue. Granted much has to do with the pressure applied.

We were told to watch your pads and apply just the amount of pressure needed to turn the skin white at the contact point on the edge. It’s a subtle change, but you can see it! Practice with a dull knife! On a sharp knife you won’t move fingers at all. Just as soon as you begin to slide them, you brain will say don’t do that! After you get the hang of it, you’ll find it’s a very effective way to test.
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

Rodger, (Rodger-50/2050), Bill (El Lobo), Johnny Fain (jonet143), Johnny Samples (Johnnyrotten),
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

gmusic, I can tell by your description that there is some insight into this.
I'll give it some attention at some time. Thank you.
Joe
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

gmusic wrote:Murray was trained/taught in Japan.
And this is why I stay out of tutorial threads. Obviously, this man has skill and training in depth, I do not.

I just don't want to be "that kind of guy." We have MA forums where "sensei" have been outed by guys who research that stuff. A mod from a V-Twin forum rides out of my dealership--we met on his forum, in fact. He questimates that 30% of the 'bikers' there inflate their experience, or are complete frauds who don't even own a bike.

That's why I take pictures of everything, with dates if need be.

I simply studied the craft, bought the stones, learned as much as I could and then applied my trade. No diplomas, no trips to Japan, no togishi at my side instructing me how to do 800 year old katanas.

I can answer questions, guide folks to honest vendors, suggest stones and provide reading lists. But I don't feel qualified to teach.

Edit: One of the tools I will mention is the Edge Pro made by Ben Dale. I bought my first one about 20 years ago just to do my personal folders. I bought a second to transport to clients and an Apex to pack on my bike. I don't think it's possible to attain the maximum sharpness a knife has unless you make the bevel uniform from front to back and then left to right. In other words, a much needed repair or improvement to the factory edge.

Even on high-end Japanese kitchen knives, the most critical first cuts you might make are to establish a blade road. You can accomplish this easier with the Edge Pro. In fact, I have used nothing but an Edge Pro to do many kitchen knives.

www.edgeproinc.com
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

We're just having a conversation here Tourist, it's not a competition. Your work is great stuff, and you have some really nice knives.

Where did that last post come from?
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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

gmusic wrote:Where did that last post come from?
From the heart. The older you get the less armor you want to drag around.

As for skill, I once finished a razor sharp caping knife. On the last lick, it slid from my hand, did a perfect 180 drop and stuck in the top of my left foot. Seriously, you want lessons from a guy like that! LOL.
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Tourist, it isn't lessons or teaching that we desire. Just some informal conversation, insight, and methods.

How many stones ya, got?

Did you use earth stones early on?
Joe
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:How many stones ya, got?

Did you use earth stones early on?
How many? Yikes, who knows. I have boxes of them. In fact, Ben used to send me R/D onezies to test out before offering them in his website. Then he got a bunch of what we now joke as "800 grit short yellow." He had a case of them, and I must have several hundred of that one number alone.

The real steal was an antique lantern he found, shattered at the bottom of a scrap barrel at his glaziers.' He knew what it was, and I knew what it was, and we stole those shards for our own greedy agenda. The stuff polishes edges like a mirror.

As for any stone style at all, well, as a young boy I used what I had. However when I discovered the Japanese method all other work stopped. I now say that "my future is the past." Everytime I read an old Japanese book my edges get sharper. I once amazed myself just by using lots more clean water and a touch of nagura.

I even found a folding Japanese laminate knife that I carry with me when I eat at restaurants. Like I say, it's a "curse."

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product. ... t_id=13170

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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

It's a joy! I doubt many of the guys here have enjoyed the edges we are discussing. An edge so sharp, so clean, you don't even feel it cutting, it just does! Nearly with its own weight it slices a tomato.......................damn near orgasmic!

Thanks for the topic T, it's been fun! The edge is the knife!
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

Rodger, (Rodger-50/2050), Bill (El Lobo), Johnny Fain (jonet143), Johnny Samples (Johnnyrotten),
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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

gmusic wrote:Thanks for the topic T, it's been fun! The edge is the knife!
Hey, no prob. Is there any other topic we should investigate? Heck, I'm going to be up for another five hours... ::ds::
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

lol...........not me!
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Well, I did want to ask about the comment you made about using old glass and about the shards you mentioned in the last post. I meant to ask about this before but I forgot to.
It's interesting. I'd like to know more about that if you would elaborate.
Thank you.
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

I would have to say glass being a compound more dense than any stone would have to be the last step in a perfectly polished blade. Many Barbour's used the leather strop, perhaps glass is one step beyond. T.........what say u?
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

Rodger, (Rodger-50/2050), Bill (El Lobo), Johnny Fain (jonet143), Johnny Samples (Johnnyrotten),
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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:old glass...I'd like to know more about that if you would elaborate.
No prob. It has to due with purity, and the uniform thickness.

There was a time in history where our ability to "throw light" was not keeping up with technology. This was often seen in lighthouses and on locomotives. Since they did not know how to make superior parabolic reflectors and lights, they just made glass more pure.

From our American Civil War to about 1901 they produced what some of us call "glaziers glass." It's made from the same materials, just superior. In fact, if you look at old farm houses, the windows look cloudy and wrinkled. My glass looks like it was made yesterday. Even from the side you can clearly read newsprint.

When you do your final polishing, you want your mounts, or media or paper to match the bevel perfectly. In doing so you also polish off the last vestiages of any minor burr or wire edge. And nothing--nothing--is as flat and uniform as period antique glass.

Aluminum peens or "dishes." Many serious polishers have special mounts made from something like steel. I've heard but have not seen granite being used. There are now guys who use chocera stones at 30K grit to avoid the process altogether.

For me, I like 7000 grit papers, fine polishing paste and antique glass. But again, take my suggestions with a grain of salt. Do some experimenting. YMMV.

As for my glass, don't bother asking, I'll never sell any of it. I do know that it can be found at flea markets. I know a flint-knapper who makes "crystal blades" from old thicker lanterns, and he found a slab at a flea market.
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Tourist, thank you.
Joe
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:Tourist, thank you.
My pleasure. I believe glass to be a superior tool for sharpening. In fact, this research spanned several years, including testing various papers to eliminate "micro" scratches--which I still get from some lot numbers of papers.

After Ben Dale and I polished and compared, he even decided to sell glass mounted polishing equipment on his website--and that's why I share this info. The idea has been tested by myself and numerous others, it works and it has a solid ideology foundation.

(BTW, if you cannot find antique glass, go to your local glazier and see if he sells thick decorative glass for things like coffee tables. I am told that it is quite uniform, pure and works well.)
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Actually I have a piece of glass similar to what you suggest. It's 11" x 29" X 1/2". I bought it at a flea market for cheap.
I use it to flatten my stones.
Is this sometimes called "float glass"? The process being the molten glass is floated on molten metal and cooled to realize a true flat surface. I believe that is what I read, somewhere.
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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:Is this sometimes called "float glass"?
I have also heard that term also, but I don't know a lot about the manufacturing process of glass. The "dead flat" info is most of the battle. The flea market angle is the most telling. Your glass was taken from someplace old and sold at a flea market--that's a good sign.

If you inspect your piece of glass and it's devoid of little bubbles and little dark flecks, than it's probably antique glass. If you got it cheap, you stole it, you lucky dog!

Keep us informed on this piece, and show us your knives!
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

O.K.

I stumbled on to more glass. This stuff is 3/16" thick. and 6" in diameter. I think it's old. Each piece was seperated by the paper you see in the picture. It was dirty and rotten from being stored in a damp place. The chiped pieces are above the paper. Perfect stuff below.

So, what do you put on the glass to sweeten the edge?
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