Zero Tolerance folders.

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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

gmusic wrote:Thanks for the topic T, it's been fun! The edge is the knife!
Hey, no prob. Is there any other topic we should investigate? Heck, I'm going to be up for another five hours... ::ds::
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gmusic
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

lol...........not me!
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FRJ
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Well, I did want to ask about the comment you made about using old glass and about the shards you mentioned in the last post. I meant to ask about this before but I forgot to.
It's interesting. I'd like to know more about that if you would elaborate.
Thank you.
Joe
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by gmusic »

I would have to say glass being a compound more dense than any stone would have to be the last step in a perfectly polished blade. Many Barbour's used the leather strop, perhaps glass is one step beyond. T.........what say u?
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

Rodger, (Rodger-50/2050), Bill (El Lobo), Johnny Fain (jonet143), Johnny Samples (Johnnyrotten),
Bill Price (CCBill)


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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:old glass...I'd like to know more about that if you would elaborate.
No prob. It has to due with purity, and the uniform thickness.

There was a time in history where our ability to "throw light" was not keeping up with technology. This was often seen in lighthouses and on locomotives. Since they did not know how to make superior parabolic reflectors and lights, they just made glass more pure.

From our American Civil War to about 1901 they produced what some of us call "glaziers glass." It's made from the same materials, just superior. In fact, if you look at old farm houses, the windows look cloudy and wrinkled. My glass looks like it was made yesterday. Even from the side you can clearly read newsprint.

When you do your final polishing, you want your mounts, or media or paper to match the bevel perfectly. In doing so you also polish off the last vestiages of any minor burr or wire edge. And nothing--nothing--is as flat and uniform as period antique glass.

Aluminum peens or "dishes." Many serious polishers have special mounts made from something like steel. I've heard but have not seen granite being used. There are now guys who use chocera stones at 30K grit to avoid the process altogether.

For me, I like 7000 grit papers, fine polishing paste and antique glass. But again, take my suggestions with a grain of salt. Do some experimenting. YMMV.

As for my glass, don't bother asking, I'll never sell any of it. I do know that it can be found at flea markets. I know a flint-knapper who makes "crystal blades" from old thicker lanterns, and he found a slab at a flea market.
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FRJ
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Tourist, thank you.
Joe
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:Tourist, thank you.
My pleasure. I believe glass to be a superior tool for sharpening. In fact, this research spanned several years, including testing various papers to eliminate "micro" scratches--which I still get from some lot numbers of papers.

After Ben Dale and I polished and compared, he even decided to sell glass mounted polishing equipment on his website--and that's why I share this info. The idea has been tested by myself and numerous others, it works and it has a solid ideology foundation.

(BTW, if you cannot find antique glass, go to your local glazier and see if he sells thick decorative glass for things like coffee tables. I am told that it is quite uniform, pure and works well.)
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FRJ
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Actually I have a piece of glass similar to what you suggest. It's 11" x 29" X 1/2". I bought it at a flea market for cheap.
I use it to flatten my stones.
Is this sometimes called "float glass"? The process being the molten glass is floated on molten metal and cooled to realize a true flat surface. I believe that is what I read, somewhere.
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Joe
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:Is this sometimes called "float glass"?
I have also heard that term also, but I don't know a lot about the manufacturing process of glass. The "dead flat" info is most of the battle. The flea market angle is the most telling. Your glass was taken from someplace old and sold at a flea market--that's a good sign.

If you inspect your piece of glass and it's devoid of little bubbles and little dark flecks, than it's probably antique glass. If you got it cheap, you stole it, you lucky dog!

Keep us informed on this piece, and show us your knives!
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

O.K.

I stumbled on to more glass. This stuff is 3/16" thick. and 6" in diameter. I think it's old. Each piece was seperated by the paper you see in the picture. It was dirty and rotten from being stored in a damp place. The chiped pieces are above the paper. Perfect stuff below.

So, what do you put on the glass to sweeten the edge?
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The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

I would go onto the 3M website and find the finest grit paper (or most desirable for your personal needs) that comes with a gummed backing. (Or call Ben Dale for smaller strips).

Wash the glass with scalding soapy water and dry with a micro-fiber cloth, or something that doesn't leave a lot of lint.

Blow off the glass with a can of compressed air.

Carefully apply the paper to the glass, press out the air bubbles. If you trap a piece of grit, just pull up the paper and remove the fleck.

Find an auto supply store or contact an on-line store for Mothers Billet Paste. I get mine from the link below:

http://www.autogeek.net/motbilmetpol.html

Take a little bit on your fingers, and begin to rub it into the paper. Apply it evenly, let your fingers get nice and warm--less is more.

BTW, don't cut yourself on the knife...it will get toasty sharp. I warned you up front. ::tu::

Edit: If you have to wait for the UPS guy for your Billet Paste, just use a little whitening toothpaste. It's also quite pure, well blended and easy to spread. Don't ask me how I know...
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FRJ
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

Thank you very much for that information, Tourist.
I am looking forward to giving this a try.
Joe
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

FRJ wrote:Thank you very much for that information, Tourist.
I am looking forward to giving this a try.
Oh, don't thank me yet!

Remember my warning that this is a "curse"? You get the first one toasty sharp with an edge so mirror smooth that you can see your eyes and then trouble comes!

You'll dig out every knife, chisel and hoof tool in your home and retreat into the darkness like vampire. In fact, I use the term "The Dark Lord of Swarf" on my business cards.

Then someone will see your knife. He'll ask you for a "quick sharpening." You'll be a good guy and do it. Then bags of knives will appear, then strangers...

Then one day you'll join a forum. You, a simple guy with a wet rock. Your life as you know it now will then be officially over! :wink:
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FRJ
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by FRJ »

O.K. Tourist, I'll heed your warning.

I'll go forth with my chin to my shoulder. ........Oh, I can't wait for all the pretty girls to show up!
Joe
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by Cooter Brown »

This has been a very interesting thread--especially about the glass. As a cabinet/furniture maker, I need sharp tools. I'm nowhere in the league with ya'll, but I get a pretty good edge on my chisels and planes with a piece of granite and paper. I use wet/dry paper up to about 2000 grit, and flatten the back of the iron or chisel--even at only 2000 grit it's pretty much like a mirror. I then use a jig to set the bevel and usually add a micro bevel, then strop on an old belt to remove wire edge. I use 3M spray adhesive to stick the paper to the granite. The granite is just tile left over from a kitchen remodel. Fairly flat checked with a Starrett rule.

Not fancy or involved, but fast and gives me a good edge. I've used waterstones, but found that I spent too much time with it, especially trying to keep them flat. I finally settled on the paper/granite method as the fastest--time is money when I'm working and this is the most time efficient way for me to sharpen.

I've never really used the method with knives--I usually cut the sheet of paper in half and invariably catch the edge of the paper with the knife and tear it.

Lacking a good flat piece of glass, Starrett makes granite blocks used for gauging that are guaranteed flat to within very small tolerances. They come in various sizes. Not cheap.
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

Cooter, you are in fact using the same general idea. Welcome to 800 year old Edo.

Yes, waterstones wear. I have several flattening devices, including a groved piece of wrought iron from Japan Woodworker that is a real mess to use. But *sigh* being retired I have the time. With the coarse 120 grit Edge Pro stones I use for re-profiling I have found a very level area of concrete on my driveway.

As you might gather from my posts, I try not to espouse any method, tool, discipline or motorcycle. My knives are sharp, so are your chisels. We both need tools for our jobs, and both methods are correct.

I have been snake-bit by 'opinions' in other forums. Many times I could have shown YouTube videos of my knives doing surgery and six slackers would shout me down from their mom's laundry area bedroom. I try to avoid that.

As you well know, the Japanese make some very expensive and stupid-sharp craft chisels, in all shapes and sizes. Even round ones. Their discipline is waterstones, and unlike our composite ones, they have quarries that date back to the samurai. I have a chunk of nagura from one.

BTW, I also sharpen and polish chisels for my clients. Below is a picture of the device I use:

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Cooter Brown
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by Cooter Brown »

T, is that a custom jig? I think the one I use is from Lee Valley. Works pretty well. Once I've established a good edge and microbevel I touch them up free hand if need be. I can maintain a pretty good edge for quite a while.

I actually used a concrete block to flatten my waterstones. Works OK. I should probably put them to use for knives. But I get pretty good results on my knives with, ahem, crock sticks and a strop. There, I confessed. Feels good! Been using the sticks for a couple of years now.

I hope you get comfortable enough around here to give more of your opinions--if any Cheeto eating denizen of his mother's basement starts to give you a hard time, we'll jump him.
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

Cooter Brown wrote:T, is that a custom jig?
No, sir. I got it right out of the Japan Woodworker catalog. I also use it to true up the front chisel bevels of the CRKT licensed version of the Graham Brothers Razel. As a rule, they are horrid! I'm surprised that either Josh or Jon haven't given their Q/C manager a good ol' Tennesse blanket party!
I actually used a concrete block to flatten my waterstones.
I forgot to add that I use the driveway for coarser grits for a specific reason. Even the Suehiro flattening stone leaves the waterstones too polished. I use the coarse stones for re-profiling and repair. I want them coarse, but flat.
I hope you get comfortable enough around here to give more of your opinions--if any Cheeto eating denizen of his mother's basement starts to give you a hard time, we'll jump him.
Well, as people get to know me I'll offer suggestions and personal opinions more and more. I'm new here. For right now I'll showcase my personal knife collection and recent sharpening projects. As you may have noticed I snap all pictures either on my bedspread or a citrus-of-the-month catalog--to prove it's me. The harrasment can get brutal at times on some knife forums.

For example, I once got called a liar for being a club-member biker who worked as a white collar credit manager for 30 years. One clown from our UP area even doubted I really started a sharpening business. During one debate I stated I wrote a letter that was published in that day's paper. To blunt this childish tirade, I took a picture of that morning's newspaper on the seat of my little Harley. These fan-boys squeal akin to "Toddlers and Tiaras."

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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by Cooter Brown »

Fair enough. You're a Yooper? Yoopers are some of my favorite people.

I've been going up every October since '01 with my dogs to chase around those big wonderful birds ya'll have up there.

Might have to bring a couple of knives this year...

How you can stand that weather after November I do not understand!
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

Cooter Brown wrote:You're a Yooper?
Oh, no. I live near Madison. I just sparred with a yooper on another forum. I haven't been hunting anything in quite some time.
How you can stand that weather after November I do not understand!
In the old days I just went stark raving chrome happy in an unheated garage. Now I "have people" who bolt up my Harleys. I sit and dream, drink latte' until I can figure out the crossword puzzle, sharpen a knife or two and then scratch myself. Somewhere along the line I stumble off to the gym. I tell people it's for the iron, but it's really to gawk at the young quiff.

Then it thaws! When things rumble and snort my mind comes out of hybernation. :wink:
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Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by Archer »

:shock:
Mike
The Tourist

Re: Zero Tolerance folders.

Post by The Tourist »

Archer wrote::shock:
LOL. I'm not clear on the issue that shocked you.

Was it the yooper mentality? My disgust over our frigid winters? My bizarre coping skills? Or the fact that I let other mechanics touch my Harley?
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