Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox

[knifeaholic]

These two are each 84mm with a similar blade configuration, with the exception that one of them adds the long file on the bottom.

From SAK Wiki, the closest match I found was a discontinued 84mm "Golfer", but as shown there it has the combo tool (bottle opener/screwdriver) rather than the small blade that these have.

Any ideas as to what to call this model, and when they were discontinued?

Thanks

[edge213]

I can't help, but you might try here: multitool.org.
They have a SAK forum.

[zed6309]

Your find all the info here

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SAKWiki

[knifeaholic]

Your find all the info here

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SAKWiki

Thanks, but I tried that. SAK Wiki does not show these.

[zed6309]

Top one looks a bit like the old accountant?

[zed6309]

But no corkscrew

[knifeaholic]

But no corkscrew

Yes, not the one I have, but yours is an unusual and interesting pattern.

[zed6309]

Well sat here going through a load of the catalogues on the wiki and cant find them its a mystery lol , although i love looking for info like this as part of the fun

[jaydar]

The top knife is very nice and very hard to find ... it's a long nail file golfer from the 1950's ish

The Sakwiki does normally say that before the combo tool was introduced in in 1982 most knives had a small clip point blade instead (doesn't really effect the model)

It would be model 207k based on the 1942 catalog page 36 borrowed from sakwiki great looking catalog

https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gal ... leryId=112

Congratulations on finding one in excellent condition

the bottom knife is a normal non long nail file golfer still a nice knife

[knifeaholic]

The top knife is very nice and very hard to find ... it's a long nail file golfer from the 1950's ish

The Sakwiki does normally say that before the combo tool was introduced in in 1982 most knives had a small clip point blade instead (doesn't really effect the model)

It would be model 207k based on the 1942 catalog page 36 borrowed from sakwiki great looking catalog

https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gal ... leryId=112

1300x980_36_1942-ELSENER-Catalog.jpeg

Congratulations on finding one in excellent condition

the bottom knife is a normal non long nail file golfer still a nice knife

Thanks so much!!

[zed6309]

Awesome, i was banging my head on this one

[kootenay joe]

Surely the 2 OP knives are more recent than 1942 ? When was this pattern D/C'd ?
kj

[jaydar]

Surely the 2 OP knives are more recent than 1942 ? When was this pattern D/C'd ?
kj

Well the first one is from the 40's up to about 1955 but it could be late 30's even

the second one could be 60's or 70's ... upto 1973 when the clip point small blade was retired

the long nail file on the backspring keeps going into the 80's but it was being phased out

golfers have been made up to 90's maybe later basically until victorinox stopped putting scissors on the 84mm frame

Hope that helps

[kootenay joe]

Surely the 2 OP knives are more recent than 1942 ? When was this pattern D/C'd ?
kj

Well the first one is from the 40's up to about 1955 but it could be late 30's even

the second one could be 60's or 70's ... upto 1973 when the clip point small blade was retired

the long nail file on the backspring keeps going into the 80's but it was being phased out

golfers have been made up to 90's maybe later basically until victorinox stopped putting scissors on the 84mm frame

Hope that helps

Thank you Jay. You really know the SAK's in some detail. You are a valuable asset to this forum.
The corkscrews on the 2 O.P. knives look to be made from 2 pieces of thick wire twisted together. Newer SAK corkscrews are made with 1 piece of twisted steel. Do you know approximately when the change in corkscrew construction occurred ?
kj

[kootenay joe]

I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj

[jaydar]

I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj

Well Victorinox as a tang stamp was used from 1923 when he added inox to the old Victoria brand

this is a great resource for tang stamps through the ages

https://elsinox.com/.cm4all/mediadb/.20 ... cture-2600

[kootenay joe]

I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj

Well Victorinox as a tang stamp was used from 1923 when he added inox to the old Victoria brand

this is a great resource for tang stamps through the ages

https://elsinox.com/.cm4all/mediadb/.20 ... cture-2600

I highly doubt the date of 1923 for the use of stainless steel for Victoria knife blades. Stainless steel was still being developed and the quality was not good enough for a knife blade. A few manufacturers used stainless for a few of their knives in late 1920's. It was not until the 1940's that the public began to accept stainless steel knife blades but the vast majority of knife blades were still made from non-stainless steel. After WW II there was a gradual increase in the proportion of knives being made with stainless blades.
The "inox" as in "Victorinox" marking dates back to early 1980's is what i have read in numerous online articles about SAK's.
Search 'History of Stainless Steel' and read up on it. most examples now
Also the red plastic handles on the 2 OP knives look like the modern SAK handles. The old SAK's had red "Fibrox" handles and it looks different and most surviving examples have handle cracks.
kj

[jaydar]

I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj

Well Victorinox as a tang stamp was used from 1923 when he added inox to the old Victoria brand

this is a great resource for tang stamps through the ages

https://elsinox.com/.cm4all/mediadb/.20 ... cture-2600

I highly doubt the date of 1923 for the use of stainless steel for Victoria knife blades. Stainless steel was still being developed and the quality was not good enough for a knife blade. A few manufacturers used stainless for a few of their knives in late 1920's. It was not until the 1940's that the public began to accept stainless steel knife blades but the vast majority of knife blades were still made from non-stainless steel. After WW II there was a gradual increase in the proportion of knives being made with stainless blades.
The "inox" as in "Victorinox" marking dates back to early 1980's is what i have read in numerous online articles about SAK's.
Search 'History of Stainless Steel' and read up on it. most examples now
Also the red plastic handles on the 2 OP knives look like the modern SAK handles. The old SAK's had red "Fibrox" handles and it looks different and most surviving examples have handle cracks.
kj

Well Ok then

Stainless steel is still being developed but by the mid 20's it was pretty damn good both VIctorinox and Wenger had switched most of their officer knives to Stainless Steel (as had a large amount of Solingen and Sheffield pocket knife Production).

The Fibre scales were phazed out in the 30's and replaced with the red plastic / Celluloid scales the Fibre scales continued in the soldier knives until 1957 when wenger replaced it with Grillon(Plastic) scales.

Victorinox is definitely from the 1920's Have a read of the company history https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Hi ... ms/history

Hope that helps

[knifeaholic]

Thank you, Jaydar, for your detailed responses and info.

[edge213]

Just to add:
From "Victorinox Swiss Army Knives A Collector's Companion" by Derek Jackson.
Stainless steel was first used by Victorinox in 1923.
Also, looking at the trademarks page it appears "Victorinox" was first used in 1931. Although, "Victoria Inoxyd" goes back to 1923.