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Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:44 am
by zzyzzogeton
Sasquach wrote:philco wrote:Charlie that one has me pondering at just what size does it cease being a fixed blade knife and become a sword.
Beautiful knife.
What is the overall length ?
It's 15" OAL. But it's not as big as this one. This one was actually designed as a "knife" to be carried in place of a sabre and has an OAL of 17 1/2"! It's a Cold Steel reproduction of the 1849 Rifleman's Knife. I'm pretty sure it could qualify as a short sword!
Maybe someone out there will be able to tell us where the length of a blade officially ceases to be a knife and becomes a sword. There must be a standard somewhere.
The standard is - there is no standard. A blade that is a knife for one person could be a short sword for another.
The general rule of thumb is that if a knife blade is too long to be easily used in an "ice pick hold", it is a short sword.
Another "rule of thumb" (or is it "rule of elbow"?
), a knife has a blade length that is the same or shorter than the distance from the tip of the user's middle finger to the outside of the elbow.
Another set in quicksand opinion is "over XX inch blade = short sword", where XX = any integer between 10" and 20", depending on who's making the pronouncement.
Some hold that the difference between a knife and a sword is the handle construction. In German, messer means knife. Peasants couldn't own swords. Peasants could own knives. By German law, if the blade had a "knife handle" and was single edged, it was a knife.
The "grossmesser", or "big knife", could have a blade anywhere from 20" to 36"+ and be a two handed weapon but still be classified legally as a knife.
The "kriegmesser" or "war knife", was a curved blade, similar to cavalry saber, up to around 1.5 meters in length, and could have either a one or two handed handle. It was a knife.
So, "pick your standard and go for it."
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:54 am
by eveled
I always felt the blade grinds were different. But can’t really put parameters on it. Some swords have very knife like blades. But I’ve never questioned what a blade was. For some reason it is always obvious to me. But I can’t pinpoint a definitive definition.
Perhaps it does have to do with the user. Sting was very much a sword to Bilbo, but is Gandalf was holding it you’d think “nice knife”
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:46 am
by TripleF
Hauled this BL HOWARD MISSISSIPPI in last week from a pawn shop...
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:12 pm
by djknife13
Scott, that is one nice looking knife with great lines and a beautiful piece of stag. ___Dave
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:47 pm
by Steve Warden
djknife13 wrote:Scott, that is one nice looking knife with great lines and a beautiful piece of stag. ___Dave
Ditto!!
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:39 pm
by Quick Steel
Scott, that is a beauty!
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:48 pm
by Sasquach
I'll make it unanimous......That's a real beauty Scott!!!
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:34 pm
by TripleF
Thanks fellas.....
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:46 pm
by Sasquach
zzyzzogeton wrote:Sasquach wrote:philco wrote:Charlie that one has me pondering at just what size does it cease being a fixed blade knife and become a sword.
Beautiful knife.
What is the overall length ?
It's 15" OAL. But it's not as big as this one. This one was actually designed as a "knife" to be carried in place of a sabre and has an OAL of 17 1/2"! It's a Cold Steel reproduction of the 1849 Rifleman's Knife. I'm pretty sure it could qualify as a short sword!
Maybe someone out there will be able to tell us where the length of a blade officially ceases to be a knife and becomes a sword. There must be a standard somewhere.
The standard is - there is no standard. A blade that is a knife for one person could be a short sword for another.
The general rule of thumb is that if a knife blade is too long to be easily used in an "ice pick hold", it is a short sword.
Another "rule of thumb" (or is it "rule of elbow"?
), a knife has a blade length that is the same or shorter than the distance from the tip of the user's middle finger to the outside of the elbow.
Another set in quicksand opinion is "over XX inch blade = short sword", where XX = any integer between 10" and 20", depending on who's making the pronouncement.
Some hold that the difference between a knife and a sword is the handle construction. In German, messer means knife. Peasants couldn't own swords. Peasants could own knives. By German law, if the blade had a "knife handle" and was single edged, it was a knife.
The "grossmesser", or "big knife", could have a blade anywhere from 20" to 36"+ and be a two handed weapon but still be classified legally as a knife.
The "kriegmesser" or "war knife", was a curved blade, similar to cavalry saber, up to around 1.5 meters in length, and could have either a one or two handed handle. It was a knife.
So, "pick your standard and go for it."
Okay. I figured there was a standard somewhere but I guess I should have expected a plethora of them given the nature of the subject.
While I'm still not certain of the demarcation point, I come away with knowledge I didn't have before.....that's always a good thing!
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:54 pm
by Byrd
I'll put my 2 ¢ worth in as well. That is one fine looking knife!
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:51 pm
by terryl308
Phaeton wrote:tongueriver wrote:This thread needs a bump. This Vic Hangas (Ruana, 1990ish) bowie is in the mail, I hope.
vic6.jpg
I have been gone over a year. A tale of woe and sadness to be related on a bleeding heart forum.
I sold off most of my knives, including two out of three of my Ruana's. I always thought my camping knife was a one off of some other design.
RH Ruana was the family camping knife.JPG Notice the similarity
Ruana not mine.jpg
Now I am curious about the knife but do not have the experience to search out the information. This is a two year old thread I found the picture in but it is the only mention of this knife I have ever found. I may have to sell a another sword or knife and more knowledge can only help.
I acquired the knife in 1982. The two skinning knives I sold were from the '40's, I had skinned moose with them as a youngster.
Anyway, the knife is pretty beater, ten full seasons of camping with children. Yeah, I let them play with knives.
Another of the reasons I considered it a one off, it has a slight bend from quenching. At least that is my guess, there is a twist, small but discernible when sighting down the blade. 36 years of use, it has no cracks and holds an edge evenly along its full length, but the twist is there.
RH Ruana used hard for years, not much collector value left.JPG
At least the signature puts a date on it. But why would a production knife be signed?
A quick comment on the "bent" blade, it is probably warped not bent, and that is a result of more hits on one side of the blade during forging or it could be uneven grinding then heat treating. I always count the number of strikes on each side of the blade, keeping the same number on each side. I know this by experience LOL. It doesn't hurt the hardness but will warp when tempering and hardening. Terry
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:06 am
by knife7knut
philco wrote:Charlie that one has me pondering at just what size does it cease being a fixed blade knife and become a sword.
Beautiful knife.
What is the overall length ?
My take on it is:When you cease referring to the knife holder as a sheath and start referring to it as a scabbard then you can refer to the knife as a sword. Or not. Blade shape could also be a factor. I've never heard of a scimitar pattern being called a knife but rather a sword.JMHO folks;your mileage may vary.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:24 am
by tongueriver
I don't seem to have a sword yet. This may be a problem. I have looked many times at Miller Brothers Blades but never pulled the trigger. I don't think I would actually use a sword, but they do have an appeal. Also scissors, cleavers, scythes, 3B. I do have a Randall model 6.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:31 am
by Sasquach
Beautiful knife TR!
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:53 pm
by knife7knut
Finally found a couple of knives at a yard sale.Western Boulder Colorado 5in fixed blade and a Zippo small folder with a blaze orange handle.$2.50 each.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:12 pm
by Byrd
Wow! What a find on that Western! That's my holy grail knife...at a price like that!
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:05 pm
by Ivoryman
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:13 am
by Quick Steel
iMan, do you know if the handle on the BK?KABAR is original?
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:45 am
by tongueriver
Late 1950s or early 1960s Schrade Walden bird and trout in WondaWood for Craftsman. I always think that the word 'bacon' should be substituted for 'bird', but that is just me.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:30 am
by Quick Steel
A very sleek looking piece. Neat.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:22 am
by Eye Brand Man
tongueriver wrote:Late 1950s or early 1960s Schrade Walden bird and trout in WondaWood for Craftsman. I always think that the word 'bacon' should be substituted for 'bird', but that is just me.cr1.jpgcr3.jpgcr4.jpg
That's a nice one Cal
always thought those bear head pommels were cool.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:53 pm
by steve99f
Found this L 66 Western a local flea yesterday. Not abused and a nice patina. Reading through some of the Western info this would be a post war knife.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:12 pm
by tongueriver
Those 66s are fine using knives. I have always liked that blade shape for a hunting knife.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:21 pm
by Byrd
What a great find, especially in that condition. No grinder marks, nice full blade and hice patina. Id make a sheath for that ans use it. It's a classic.
Re: Show off your fixed blades!
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:39 pm
by steve99f
tongueriver wrote:Those 66s are fine using knives. I have always liked that blade shape for a hunting knife.
I'm with you on the blade profile, this my first Western I think.