Punch Varieties

[268bull]

Here is a WW2 Camillus which has just a wicked punch! U.S.Marine Corps is etched on the handle.

[upnorth]

The punch looks to have been reprofiled a bit. How does it work?

[268bull]

The punch works fine. I have looked the punch blade over and it doesn't appear to have any file work done on it. It could be a bit of an angle photo shot that makes it appear that way. I wasn't directly over top of the knife. It looks like the photo shot in "The Demo Knife" article (www.donrearic.com/demoknife1.htm).

[Miller Bro's]

Here is an old New York Knife Co. Punch Jack.

Wicked snap, cocobolo handles, nickle silver shield.

[upnorth]

Nice honest HJ, Dimitri! (I see the short bolster on this one!)
Harrison punch, with laminated tang.

[upnorth]

Here is a old Nap punch with a Pat'd number of 1-29-07 on the punch. Levine's pg. 25 says Carman patent punch blade dated April 7 1908 (884,350) made by Napanoch Knife Co.
Is the date on the punch blade for the knife itself? This punch is for a old Nap tool knife. I tried to scan the other side of this punch and could not get a clear picture, no way. All
tools for this knife is stamped as the punch. Maybe I have answered my question!!

I meant to ask you, stockman, does that punch have the double groove on the unseen side??
'08 is the punch patent date, so '07 must be for the tool kit or tang system??

[stockman]

Charlie. yes it does have the double grove.

[upnorth]

Here's what stockman's punch looks like! It had to go through two (at least) machining set-ups to hollow it. When Winchester bought Napanoch, they used this punch for a while, but soon switched to an easier/cheaper one.
Of course the tang is different than stockman's because of his special tool kit.

[upnorth]

Here are some Winchester HJs!
Note the Nap punches!!

[knowtracks]

It appears to me, but then again what do I know, that most all of these punches were patented some place around the turn of the century. Does this have to do with the patent office?
Shirley (I know don't call me Shirley) there had to be punches before this time frame!! What did the old boys do when their leather broke down in the old, old days??? Hum?

[Miller Bro's]

Shirley (I know don't call me Shirley) there had to be punches before this time frame!! What did the old boys do when their leather broke down in the old, old days??? Hum?

Sure there was! They used these bad boys!

[knowtracks]

Perhaps I should rephrase my question... What was the oldest patent claim for a leather punch?? I suppose before engineered punches came into being a person just had to carry a sharpened nail or triangle like Miller Bro. posted. The trouble with those "punches" is that they don't remove any material. And believe you me if you've ever tried to fasten a buckle after driving a nail thru harness leather, or even saddle leather, it just doesn't work. The leather just closes back in after you pull the nail out.

[Owd Wullie]

Perhaps I should rephrase my question... What was the oldest patent claim for a leather punch?? I suppose before engineered punches came into being a person just had to carry a sharpened nail or triangle like Miller Bro. posted. The trouble with those "punches" is that they don't remove any material. And believe you me if you've ever tried to fasten a buckle after driving a nail thru harness leather, or even saddle leather, it just doesn't work. The leather just closes back in after you pull the nail out.

Been there and done ( or tried like you said ) that. I usually ended stabbing a knife blade through it and twisting the blade till I got enough of a hole in it to make do till I could get to a REAL punch.

Neat old knife D!!

[Miller Bro's]

What was the oldest patent claim for a leather punch??

I don`t know, maybe Charlie does?

I suppose before engineered punches came into being a person just had to carry a sharpened nail or triangle like Miller Bro. posted. The trouble with those "punches" is that they don't remove any material.

A round nail will not remove any material, it has no cutting edge. The "triangle" punch will, it`s edges are sharp. Check out the pictures below.

I took that 110 year old horseman`s knife I posted above and used the punch to put a hole in a 1/4" thick leather sheath I had laying around. It went through like a hot knife through butter! A few clockwise twists and the hole you see is the result. No material left behind, a very nice hole for a belt or whatever you would need one for. This is the best type punch I have ever used. The later ones have a rounded tip, these are hard to push through thick leather. The old stuff is still the best.

[Owd Wullie]

It's a MIRACLE OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY!!!!

What'll they think of next.

Reckon all those later patented punches were just an attempt to "re-invent the wheel"? With that hole made by the punch you just showed working, doesn't seem like you could get a lot better result with anything made later.

[Miller Bro's]

Reckon all those later patented punches were just an attempt to "re-invent the wheel"? With that hole made by the punch you just showed working, doesn't seem like you could get a lot better result with anything made later.

Willie, It looks that way to me. To prove it I took out an old Cattaraugus scout knife with a punch blade and tried it out.

It was harder to push through, it took more turns to make the hole, and it left some leather material behind. It was not as clean or fast as the early punch on the horseman`s knife.

[knowtracks]

Thanks for the demonstration MB
I suppose then back in the day a nail would be just about as effective once sharpened the tip, and if was large enough to handle. Even by the turn of the centry there were no round nails they were still square hand forged tools.

[upnorth]

It's all about how sharp it is. Tony Bose knows how to sharpen an edge. He did this experimental punch, and gave it to me to try out.
It is dead flat on the face, and has two converging flats on the back.
The reflection on the edge view makes it look thinner than it is.
Very simple to grind, and sharpen. It slips into the leather, and when you get the desired depth, it cuts out a neat hole of your chosen size!
I just cut these, a few seconds each. (I lost the small plug! It's so tiny, it flew off into the junk in my knife room - I'll find it when I sweep!) The big hole is 3/8" the small one is 1/8".
Any of those punches will work well if sharp. That's why that triangle works, although it's too thick to be optimum. If you sharpen a pen blade on one side only (chisel grind), it'll cut a nice hole! The narrower the blade, the smaller the hole.

[knowtracks]

Very cool Charlie!
Thanks for demonstrating that punch also.
It appears from the donut holes that were cut out that where you push the punch in is not going to be the center of the hole. But to 1 side or the other depending on which way you turn the punch. Is that correct?

[upnorth]

Yes, exactly. If you need it to be precise, you just lightly scratch the circle on the surface first. I "wiggle" the point in, because if you push real hard, when it breaks through, your fingers are on the other side!!

Don't ask me how I know this !

[ea42]

Charlie, I think that's why MB's got a big 'ol piece of foam under his leather

Great demo's guys!!!! I can see that they likely developed the newer thinner punches so they could be folded into any knife like a blade, rather than having that big wedge stuck to the outside of a knife, kind of limits it to the horseman or utility style knives only.

A number of the NYK Co. patents incorporated a locking mechanism into the punch and handle to prevent the blade from closing on a digit or two.

Eric

[upnorth]

Here's one of those locking punches from NYK. Kinda fragile, I'm lucky this one is intact and works.
The spring tab locks into the notch in the underside of the bolster and liner.

[woseyjales]

Duck UnLaminated Greenwing 36OT

[upnorth]

Not a new punch style, but a new tang stamping for me. I suspect it is rare, and only used from 1906 to 1911.
The knife is pure Empire IMO, so a contract knife to McIntosh Heather.
I've added some pictures of the knife with some Empires. The MH is on the right in each case.

[gmusic]

Charlie it appears MH was into their knives, here is a Toenail from same.

http://www.elephanttoenails.com/home/Th ... tion=false


Were they a general/hardware store?