A CHALLENGE for you.

[wlf]

Nice knives Joe, Lee, and John. That is a big pen blade John.

[djknife13]

Nice knives Joe, Lee, and John. That is a big pen blade John.

John, that's the first thing I thought when I saw your knife. I have one or two of that pattern with the large sheepsfoot and large spear and I love that pattern. ____Dave

[JohnR]

Nice knives Joe, Lee, and John. That is a big pen blade John.

John, that's the first thing I thought when I saw your knife. I have one or two of that pattern with the large sheepsfoot and large spear and I love that pattern. ____Dave

Nice knives Joe, Lee, and John. That is a big pen blade John.

Thanks you Lyle and thanks Dave, I also love the vintage knives that have a sheepsfoot main, not easy to find, would love to see picture of your knife if you can, thanks.

[djknife13]

Nice knives Joe, Lee, and John. That is a big pen blade John.

John, that's the first thing I thought when I saw your knife. I have one or two of that pattern with the large sheepsfoot and large spear and I love that pattern. ____Dave

Nice knives Joe, Lee, and John. That is a big pen blade John.

Thanks you Lyle and thanks Dave, I also love the vintage knives that have a sheepsfoot main, not easy to find, would love to see picture of your knife if you can, thanks.

My knife with two large blades is not a Challenge. I think everybody except Challenge made HS&B. I believe this one was made by NYN. Here's the only Challenge I could find with a main Sheepsfoot and a pen second. it sure is a basic knife with no frills, but I sure like it I don't remember ever seeing a Challenge I didn't like.____Dave

[FRJ]

Those are such good looking knives, Dave. How long are they?

[LongBlade]

Real nice knives Dave ... That HS&B has alot of classic style ...

[djknife13]

Those are such good looking knives, Dave. How long are they?

If I remember correctly they are 3&5/8 inches.___Dave

[FRJ]

Thanks, Dave.

[peanut740]

Fine bunch of knives guys!

[JohnR]

Thanks Dave, love the HS&B, rarely do you see a vintage jack with 2 full size blades, even the ones with sheepsfoot mains are scarce, I try to collect them and have only found 3, 2 Challenge and a Catt.

[FRJ]

I've got an old relic of a Schrade Cut. Co. like that.
I'll put it in the Schrade Legacy forum.

[ScoutKnives]

I picked up a Challenge 2 blade Easy opener Scout .
Thanks for looking .

Mike

[peanut740]

Mike,that is a dandy!

[LongBlade]

Great looking Challenge Scout Mike ... That bone is sweet, nice big blade with etch ...

[JohnR]

That's a great one Mike!

[ScoutKnives]

Thank you fellas , super glad to have found it .

[Mumbleypeg]

Great find Mike. First challenge in that pattern I’ve seen. Nice etch too!

Ken

[wlf]

Beautiful bone, great addition to one of the best scout collections.

[FRJ]

A good looking knife and a great pattern.

[TripleF]

I believe this is the 2nd to pass by here...

[LongBlade]

Great old HOK Scott .. Thanks for sharing it!

[Campbellclanman]

Wow- Challenge make some great Knives don't they!

These knives are Challenge Knives -or at least two are stamped as such- we all know a Challenge when we see one, but I put this out there for discussion on the B/F a while ago...
These are three older Harness Jacks, two are stamped Challenge, the other is Stamped Townley.......

The very Tidy Ebony HJ is a Challenge stamped Knife ( immediate Left )- sporting an Alvord Punch ( Empire Knives ) with the Alvord Patent # ( thats lighting on the tip- not scratch damage ) , the other Ebony in the Middle is Townley Stamped- the exact same knife- most definitely made by the same manufacturer as the Challenge, the Nice old Jigged Bone is also stamped Challenge but sports a slightly different Punch- again by Empire - I add a slightly smaller Empire Girls Scout Knife with this second mentioned Shaped punch as a reference - this Empire Girls Punch is slightly taken down to fit the frame - but is definitely the same Punch - ( I added the revers side for Shoulder comparisons )
So this leaves a couple of theories....

Challenge had Empire Contract Make these Knives for them.... or....
Challenge bought the Punches from Empire,

IMG_1585.JPG (51.5 KiB) Viewed 3442 times

Now with the Empire Girls scout Knife added - for comparisons to the Jigged Bone Challenge that has the other Empire Styled Punch..

Closer up..The reverse for comparisons - Tang, Shape of Shouldering etc...

Copy of Alvords Punch Patent ( Empire Knives )

I always have to thanks Charlie for his help with my trying to learn about the HJ Knife,PLEASE know I don't always get it right - but I put it out there for discussion as to what I am thinking- very much like as if you and say 5 or 6 of your very closest Knife mates were sitting around a table ( having a Beer as well of course!) - and you just say " Hey..what do you think.... this looks to me like a....."

[danno50]

Those are three lovely Challenge HJs, Campbellclanman! I know nothing about punches. Other questions I might have are: did Empire have exclusive rights to the Alvord punch?; did Empire manufacture the Alvord punch or did Alvord manufacture them and sell them to Empire?; have you seen or handled any Empire stamped HJs to compare other elements of manufacture to the Challenge stamped knives? I have a photo of Charlie's Empire display somewhere in my files. I will check it out, there must have been a harness jack or two in there.
You would think, with all the interrelationships between cutlery companies back then, that paper documentation might still be around. ie. Invoices from one cutlery company to another for punches, or completed contract knives?

[peanut740]

Good detective work!It helps to have the knives to compare.

[LongBlade]

Duncan - Nice knives and excellent background search to figure it out ... All those knives are great examples!!!

I remember that discussion on BF ... Given Empire probably did more contract work than making knives for themselves one can speculate Empire made knives for Challenge... on the other hand maybe they made only the punches for Challenge... the rear of the punches match but I had only seen Alvord’s punches with the “lip” but the patent no doubt shows the nail nicks on the Alford punch as well... really interesting Duncan and thanks for sharing it here ... I can’t seem to find the reference but I thought there was a contract connection with Townley and Empire ..