OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this knife?

[Unk]

Dave - isn't it great to have both! Nice looking knives

....and Dimitri - yes, you are gaining on me! That's a nice looking pair as well.

[djknife13]

Dave - isn't it great to have both! Nice looking knives

....and Dimitri - yes, you are gaining on me! That's a nice looking pair as well.

Yeah, Unk. I saw the Wolf in a roll on the table at a knife show and told the dealer "hey I recognize that, it's a Jessy Crouch." He said, No that's the other one. I didn't know there was another one. The Wolf wasn't in very good condition and it sent me on a year long search until I found a nice one, on that same dealers table. I had gone to the show the second year with a deal already set to buy a 6 blade Wilbert congress from another guy for $400. I had that one in my pocket along with a Keen Kutter for $40. I had $600 to spend at the show including food for the weekend. The second dealer wanted $160 for the Wolf. In 10 minutes, after driving 8 hours, I would have been broke. I had wisely, given the first dealer half cash and half check for the congress and then let the Wolf sit until the next morning and offered the second $100. We settled on $120. It's alot of work sometimes getting a full collection of a specific pattern, even when there is only two.____Dave

[Miller Bro's]

Thanks Unk

It's alot of work sometimes getting a full collection of a specific pattern, even when there is only two.____Dave

It sure is Dave I had some help, I would like to thank Tom (tj murphy) and David (PA Knives)

[danno50]

I posted awhile back about missing out on a Chris Wolf knife on ebay, due to some of ebay's inane policies. Tjmurphy PMed my about another one on ebay, I was not allowed to bid on that one either, couldn't even email the seller. TJ offered to bid for me and then through further communication offered to sell me his matched set: a Chris Wolf and a Jess Crouch. The knives arrived today, thanks very much, Tom.
Dan

[1967redrider]

Does anyone have a good reference book description of these two knives or S&M history? I looked in Levine's, Sargent's, Price and Zalesky's and Voyles' books but didn't see anything referencing Jess Crouch or Chris Wolf. In fact there is no mention of the history of Schatt & Morgan, unless I missed it?

Thanks!

[RobesonsRme.com]

Read David Clark's post from January 16th, 2007. His User Name is "Nifbuf". It's down some on the first page of this thread.

He has been our resident S&M guru for some time.

Charlie Noyes

[L.H.S]

Hello,
I just joined the forum, having been a reader for sometime now. This post caught my eye and maybe I can add to the mystery of this Chris Wolf knife. I also have a couple of this knife ands one with a blade stamping of Jess Crouch. Wolf was a senior manager at S&M but I don't know just what oposition he held of when. We do know something about Crouch. David Krauss noted in his book the Crouch started out with S&M in Gowanda, NY in 1898, moved to Titusville when the company moved. He died in 1921. I will post a photo of the Crouch knife. You will notice that in the picture there is heavy stamp that was used to stamp the blade. That stamp is still in Queen factory. I took the photo in 2005.
My speculation only, but think these knives must have been made by some of the officers at S&M and possibly given to friends. They are heavy as PA described, the blade and spring being about 5/32" thick. Walnut handles. No nail pull. 4 1/2" long closed. Probably made between 1910 and the start of WWI, I am guessing.

David Krauss and I found a little more history about Morgan and Crouch and a tie to Atlanta and the Dollar Knife Companies. I will will c paste the info below:



Jay Rudasill
Schatt & Morgan Cutlery Company


The Titusville Herald August 2, 1918: newspaper article - at a Board of Directors meeting of the Schatt & Morgan Cutlery Company, Charles B. Morgan was elected President and Jay Rudasill of Atlanta was elected as Vice President. One year later in August 2, 1919 he was listed as both Vice President and Director.

The Titusville Herald May 2, 1921: newspaper article – The interest of the late J. V. Couch was purchased by Charles B. Morgan and Jay Rudasill of Atlanta Georgia. Mr. Rudasill, who was Vice President, will become President of the company and Mr. Morgan, who was President will succeed Mr. Couch as secretary-treasure and will also be General Manager. Earl E. Highhouse has been chosen Vice President.

So here is some detail about Jay Rudasill: The first listing in the Atlanta City Directories was in 1915, traveling salesman living at 68 Druid Circle, Atlanta. There is no mention of any specific companies he was associated with. He was listed as a traveling salesman every year after that until 1934 where he was listed as a station attendant.

He most certainly was a sales representative for S&M, and probably a very good one having gained the position as Vice President by 1918 and President in 1921. For 18 years he was involved with the S&M Company from it's heydays to it demise in 1933.

He certainly had to have had an association with Paul W. Jones during the time that Jones got the Dollar Knife Trademark and S&M made the Dollar Knife Corporation, Atlanta knives. Rudasill must have been Jones’ connection to S&M and since Rudasill was a traveling salesman he may have been the "idea man" for the development of the Dollar Knife idea, even with Theo M. Green in Oklahoma. We may never know for sure.

Rudasill was a contemporary of Morgan, J. V. Crouch and had to know the key people that left S&M to start Queen City.

In 1921 Rudasill was listed with a wife named Della. They were listed every year after that together living at 68 Druid Circle until 1949. There was no listing after that.

1944 Rudasill was a clerk at the Merchant Salvage Co., 1947 he was an apartment manager.

David Clark, Nov. 2005

The notes above may be full of more question and answers but I thought this info would be of interest.

I haven't had much time to collect pocketknives this year - most of my funds have gone towards sprucing up an old M1 Garand and an AK (SAR-1). You never know when the zombie apocolypse is gonna hit - lol.

I was perusing e-bay a couple of weeks ago when I saw one of these - they don't come up for auction very often, so when they do, I figure you gotta get it then or never (or at least wait a long time). This one cost me about double the first one, so I guess some of you guys were paying attention.

The one with the dark brown handles is the new one.

Anyway, I have a pair of Jess Crouch bookends now. Maybe one of these days I'll find me a Chris Wolf.....

Hello nifbuf and unk! First off, thank you so much for posting such great information and pictures here. I often use AAPK for research. I'm writing an article on the Northwoods Heritage Jack and how it is an homage to these Jess Crouch knives, and how the Jess Crouch knives inspired the Northwoods brand aesthetic under KnivesShipFree.

I have included some images of yours, and have of course mentioned that they are yours, where I found them, and linked to this thread.

If you would like me to remove them please message me here or preferably through my site and I would be happy to do so.

[1967redrider]

Thanks to Steve (knifeaholic), I finally picked up a Chris Wolf after searching for years. Now I just need to find a Jess Crouch . . .

[1967redrider]

I just ran across this article, written by David Clark (nifbuf), hope you can read it. And I think I found a Jess Crouch knife too, mailman permitting.

[toomanyknives]

Hello,
I just joined the forum, having been a reader for sometime now. This post caught my eye and maybe I can add to the mystery of this Chris Wolf knife. I also have a couple of this knife ands one with a blade stamping of Jess Crouch. Wolf was a senior manager at S&M but I don't know just what oposition he held of when. We do know something about Crouch. David Krauss noted in his book the Crouch started out with S&M in Gowanda, NY in 1898, moved to Titusville when the company moved. He died in 1921. I will post a photo of the Crouch knife. You will notice that in the picture there is heavy stamp that was used to stamp the blade. That stamp is still in Queen factory. I took the photo in 2005.
My speculation only, but think these knives must have been made by some of the officers at S&M and possibly given to friends. They are heavy as PA described, the blade and spring being about 5/32" thick. Walnut handles. No nail pull. 4 1/2" long closed. Probably made between 1910 and the start of WWI, I am guessing.

David Krauss and I found a little more history about Morgan and Crouch and a tie to Atlanta and the Dollar Knife Companies. I will will c paste the info below:



Jay Rudasill
Schatt & Morgan Cutlery Company


The Titusville Herald August 2, 1918: newspaper article - at a Board of Directors meeting of the Schatt & Morgan Cutlery Company, Charles B. Morgan was elected President and Jay Rudasill of Atlanta was elected as Vice President. One year later in August 2, 1919 he was listed as both Vice President and Director.

The Titusville Herald May 2, 1921: newspaper article – The interest of the late J. V. Couch was purchased by Charles B. Morgan and Jay Rudasill of Atlanta Georgia. Mr. Rudasill, who was Vice President, will become President of the company and Mr. Morgan, who was President will succeed Mr. Couch as secretary-treasure and will also be General Manager. Earl E. Highhouse has been chosen Vice President.

So here is some detail about Jay Rudasill: The first listing in the Atlanta City Directories was in 1915, traveling salesman living at 68 Druid Circle, Atlanta. There is no mention of any specific companies he was associated with. He was listed as a traveling salesman every year after that until 1934 where he was listed as a station attendant.

He most certainly was a sales representative for S&M, and probably a very good one having gained the position as Vice President by 1918 and President in 1921. For 18 years he was involved with the S&M Company from it's heydays to it demise in 1933.

He certainly had to have had an association with Paul W. Jones during the time that Jones got the Dollar Knife Trademark and S&M made the Dollar Knife Corporation, Atlanta knives. Rudasill must have been Jones’ connection to S&M and since Rudasill was a traveling salesman he may have been the "idea man" for the development of the Dollar Knife idea, even with Theo M. Green in Oklahoma. We may never know for sure.

Rudasill was a contemporary of Morgan, J. V. Crouch and had to know the key people that left S&M to start Queen City.

In 1921 Rudasill was listed with a wife named Della. They were listed every year after that together living at 68 Druid Circle until 1949. There was no listing after that.

1944 Rudasill was a clerk at the Merchant Salvage Co., 1947 he was an apartment manager.

David Clark, Nov. 2005

The notes above may be full of more question and answers but I thought this info would be of interest.

Thought y'all might like to see 68 Druid Circle, where Jay Rudasill lived. it still stands in Atlanta, is is quite a looker..

[1967redrider]

Thanks for the picture, tmk!

My Jess Crouch showed up. It has normal snap, not the bear trap snap my Chris Wolf knive has. Still, it's a decent survivor, haven't cleaned it up one bit. Probably won't do much more than make sure the rust is under control. Just a hair more blade remaining than my Wolf knife.

[doglegg]

Wow!!! Very enviable knives. Congrats.

[1967redrider]

Wow!!! Very enviable knives. Congrats.

Thanks, dog! These are not easy to find, unless your name is "Unk."

[Miller Bro's]

I picked up another Wolf, someone replaced the pin.

[1967redrider]

I picked up another Wolf, someone replaced the pin.

Nice find, Dimitri, and a pretty full blade on that one. Looks like the wood scale is pretty pristine too.

Does she kick like a mule?

[Miller Bro's]

Nice find, Dimitri, and a pretty full blade on that one. Looks like the wood scale is pretty pristine too.

Does she kick like a mule?

Happy with the blade and handles

But, she does not kick like a mule! The tang is worn off probably because the owner never oiled the joint, I had another one like that I had to send to Kaleb to have the tang tig welded and re- pinned! So it seems this is a common occurrence with these knives

[1967redrider]

Nice find, Dimitri, and a pretty full blade on that one. Looks like the wood scale is pretty pristine too.

Does she kick like a mule?

Happy with the blade and handles

But, she does not kick like a mule! The tang is worn off probably because the owner never oiled the joint, I had another one like that I had to send to Kaleb to have the tang tig welded and re- pinned! So it seems this is a common occurrence with these knives

Gotcha. The Jess Crouch knife I have just has normal snap opening and closing. It definitely had more rust than the Chris Wolf knife, but less blade loss. I guess it all depends on storage and maintenance, even with these big utility type folders.

[Unk]

: These are not easy to find, unless your name is "Unk."

[Unk]

I dug my knife rolls out of the closet where they have been stored for a few years since we moved. I found a Chris Wolf knife I bought just before we moved and totally forgot about. It was like a late Christmas! I had stuck it in a knife roll thinking I would come back and clean it up later...but it's been a busy 3 years.

Anyway, I have 5 now. It's the Chris Wolf, second from bottom, with the really dark patina. I finally got a Chris Wolf with good snap! My other two are pretty worn.

[doglegg]

I dug my knife rolls out of the closet where they have been stored for a few years since we moved. I found a Chris Wolf knife I bought just before we moved and totally forgot about. It was like a late Christmas! I had stuck it in a knife roll thinking I would come back and clean it up later...but it's been a busy 3 years.

Anyway, I have 5 now. It's the Chris Wolf, second from bottom, with the really dark patina. I finally got a Chris Wolf with good snap! My other two are pretty worn.

[Miller Bro's]

I dug my knife rolls out of the closet where they have been stored for a few years since we moved. I found a Chris Wolf knife I bought just before we moved and totally forgot about.

Nice!

[1967redrider]

Awesome group, Unk! My Jess Crouch is somewhat lazy, but my Chris Wolf will rattle my fillings, like a bear trap. Also, if you're looking to unload one of your Chris Wolf knives, I know a guy who would be interested.

[1967redrider]

Anyone bite on these? I may have , went faster than flapjacks at a logging camp.