Some Camillus Knife Lore

radicat · Post by **radicat** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:14 am

Thanks Tom, I recently mentioned on a forum that my "KA-BAR" rigger's knife was much like the Camillus pattern. Mums was the word still, so you guys couldn't say much then. I do wonder if the master blades on the pre WWII "KA-BAR" was sometimes shaped a little different from the Camillus. Also the Kabar that I have has a swedge on the master beginning at the nail pull. I really want this knife to be Camillus made. That's why I bought it.
It was ebay item # 270077515721 . Better pics than I do. Thanks

radicat · Post by **radicat** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:22 pm

At the risk of starting a new category of collecting for myself, I will ask what Camillus marked knives were not made by them?

ea42 · Post by **ea42** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:40 pm

Box number one is an old one. Wardlow was a nineteenth century steelmaker in Sheffield. Crucible steel was also developed on the nineteenth century in Sheffield and was a much more stable steel, ideal for knifemaking as it didn't contain slag like the blister steel it replaced. I would date that box as a late 1800's early nineteen hundreds as a starting point since we imported a lot of steel from Sheffield at that time. I could be way off though, if someone has access to model numbers or timelines of steel suppliers, it would probably be easier to date it.
That interview is a fantastic idea and very gracious of you to offer.

Eric

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:05 pm

I had a conversation with my mother today and she recalled all the knife companies that she has visited:

Utica Cutlery, Ontario, Kabar, Schrade (Ellenville, NY), Case Cutlery, Cole National in Cleveland, OH (parent company of Kabar), Buck Knives (both the old factory and new factory), Colonial Knife Co. and Imperial in Providence, RI.

She also visited a knife manufacturer in Mexico but she does not recall the name. (I remember seeing the owners of this company at the Camillus factory).

Camillus made parts for the Colonel Coon Knives in Columbia, TN. This company was owned by Adrian Harris. My mother visited this company in 1980 and attended the Mule Day Parade where she met Billy Carter (President Jimmy Carter's brother).

Tom Williams

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:16 pm

radicat

The only companies that I remember that made knives for Camillus were Western Cutlery (three fixed blade knives with leather handles-#1006, #1007 and #1008), Syracuse knives made by a company in Poland-Gerlach?, CAMCO knives made by a company in Ireland that was owned by Albert Baer, knives imported from Germany by the Kastors such as A.W. Wadsworth, Morley, etc., and the recent CAMCO and ROBO assist line of knives from Taiwan.

Tom Williams

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:32 pm

orvet,
My mother was not working at Camillus during WWII. She joined the company in 1947. I did have other family members that did work at Camillus during WWII.
During the war, Camillus employed about 700 workers. My mother's cousin Lucy worked during the war and she told me that she was hired to work in the office, but she would spend half of each day assembling knives and also worked on Saturdays. Everyone at Camillus pitched in and did their part for the war effort. Camillus received the Army/Navy "E" Award for Excellence on several occassions.

Many Camillus employees enlisted during the war. There is a plaque at the factory that commemorates those that were killed in WWII.

Many materials used to make knives were in short supply during WWII. Brass was not always available so many knives were made with steel linings. M3 trench knives were made with several different handle materials when leather was not available.

Camillus employees were 100% behind the war effort. In addition to their outstanding performance in producing knives, many workers bought war bonds to finance the war.

Tom Williams

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:42 am

I'm still a rookie on the subject of knife lore, so I don't post much. I just try to take it all in like a sponge.

I feel compelled to say how much I've enjoyed the information that is exchanged here. This stuff is priceless in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing. It is greatly appreciated

There is not much that fascinates me more than this old history. Today I've been extremely intrigued

Bryan

Gr8Scout · Post by **Gr8Scout** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:19 am

As so many of us have discovered, Bryan, old knives have soul.

A good time to post these pics Tom sent to me of some Colonel Coons by Adrian Harris. Those were some great knives, and my Col Coon five inch toothpick is one of my favorites... and the blade on that thing looks exactly like that on the Remington Stren fishing knife made by Camillus.
Tom, tell the guys how you came by these 'coons, and what is 'Mule Day'??

Interesting knife lore as always, Tom. Also, here is a pic of a book by Adrian Harris. I have never seen this one.

And here are some more names for my favorite pattern: Dance or Tango knife. Saturday evening knife. East Dallas Special. East St. Louis Special. Saturday Night Special. Powderhorn. Tickler (Bernard Levine's term for these) or Rib Tickler. The Buck toothpick (made by Camillus), has a 'California Toothpick' blade etch.

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:54 am

As long as you two will talk, you will I am sure have an appreciative audience. I would even like to hear some of the side bars of your Dads
thoughts during that half century plus. Thank You for even considering us.
wb

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:58 pm

That book by Adrian Harris on knife repair has some very interesting stuff in it! A great book for the newbie, as well as having some advanced technique in it. The problem I found is that it wasn't comprehensive enough. It, and the other book on repair by Kelley should be about 4 or five times as thick with how-to information!!

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:34 pm

Hey Phil,

I lost out on one of those Colonel Coon "Mule Day" knives on eBay a couple of years ago. I did a little research, because I wondered what the heck Mule Day was. Maybe some of the folks from 10-AH-C will chime in, until Tom comes along to tell us about that knife.
Just for fun...

http://www.muleday.com/

Thanks for all the cool information...

Bill

radicat · Post by **radicat** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:49 pm

Thanks Tom for the info on the collaborating makers of Camillus knives. Those Western Cutlery-made knives are now a little higher on my list of got to have Camillus knives. Sorry, I'll have to pass on the Taiwan stuff. You understand.
You are a gentleman. Your mother is a sweetheart.

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:06 pm

I have stayed out of the Camillus issue since I find it painful. However this is an article which appeared in todays March 11th Middletown NY Record ( Our local paper ). I thought you might find it interesting. Also upon purusing the postings I noticed a reference to Wardlow while it is true most references to these knives refer to the Sheffield maker. This line was also produced in Walden . As a local knife and fairly rare. I did a bit of research over the years. to find out who actually made these knives of the 3 companies in Walden. This I believe was answered when I found the ( jigged bone example in the pics ) since this knife had a light etch which is marked CHIP AWAY this was a line produced ( I believe by EC Simmons ). This would place it in a catagory similar to the WM Enders type knives also a line sold by Simmons. However the WM Enders even though made in Walden are marked just USA so go figure. Simmons made knives were made by Walden Knife. At least in the beginning . I thought I had solved this piece of history and had the icing on the cake when I located a steel advertiser tang marked Walden Knife However then I found another with the Hammer tang of NYK. I still believe Wardlow was made by Walden Knife. Reference to the Wardlows from Walden is difficult to find however I have included a reference to it and the English firm as well from a second edition John Goins ( which has been out of print for years. Also a reference for the Enders there were a number of these Walden produced knives that many are unaware of. Nice thread I will try to stay out of it to keep it from becoming to depressing. LT

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:23 pm

one more pic of the wardlow

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:19 am

You keep amazing us with these rare knives, LT. Please keep them coming,
Camillus or not!
And speaking of "or not", I'm putting together a little tribute display of all my Camillus related knives, so am hoping you or anyone here will render an opinion as to whether Camillus made these. A click on the pic should enlarge it; Thanks in advance,
Charlie in the north.

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:50 pm

The Colonel Coon knives were given to my mother by Adrian Harris, founder of Col. Coon Knives. Camillus and Colonial made knife parts for Mr. Harris and he assembled the knives in his shop in Columbia, TN. Mr. Harris would visit the Camillus factory once a year to order parts. He is truly a gentleman and was liked by everyone at Camillus. When he came to Camillus he would bring me one of his knives for my collection. His knives are top quality.
Mr. Harris invited my mother and Nilo Mioro, president of Camillus, to attend the Mule Day Parade in 1980. He presented my mother with a Col. Coon knife with her name engraved on the handle. My mother has photos from Mule Day and these will be posted on AAPK.
In 2004 Mr. Eugene Blankenship (The Knife Doctor) arranged for Mr. Harris to be recognized for his contributions to the knife industry. I had a plaque made for Mr. Harris from his friends at Camillus Cutlery Co. I made a photocopy of the plaque and I will ask Phil to post it.

Tom Williams

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:53 pm

Mossdancer,
My father worked for Camillus during the 1950's. His primary job was making M4 bayonets for the military. He also worked as a set-up man on the equipment at the Camillus factory.

Tom Williams

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:47 am

Camco;
Thank you for all the contributions so far. Especially that regarding your Dad making the M-4. Should you ever have a chance it would really be neat to know. Is there any way of identifying the individual who assembled or made a particular bayo. As I said no hurry, this is back burner compared to your ongoing conversations with your Mom.
Thank you and your parents again,
W.B.

Gunsmoke47 · Post by **Gunsmoke47** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:59 am

Hey Yall, I do not want to Hijack this wonderful thread so if a Mod wants to move it I understand. I am posting here because I saw a tang stamp posted by LT and it matches a knife of my grandfather. He was born in 1895 and passed in 1966 and that's all I know about this knife that was handed down to me. It is a switch blade candystripe celluloid with Hammer Brand USA on the tang. He kept it in his tackle box. Would love to know if it is a Wardlow, Camillus, or what. I have no clue of maker or date. Thanks, Kelley

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:01 am

that would be an imperial hammer brand automatic, nice knife, looks like it could use a good cleaning up, rust never sleeps.

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:21 am

Here is a page from my book also there is a timeline marking of the Imperial Hammer tangs on one of the threads on here. Your knife if functional in the condition it is in is 75 to 100 RETAIL. The Hammer tang was used by New York Knife prior to its purchase by Imperial in the 30 tys. These little knives were quite inexpensive and were used as givaways or prizes ( for getting your weight guessed ect. THey have appreciated quite a bit as you can see.

Gunsmoke47 · Post by **Gunsmoke47** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:48 am

M-M, thank you for your information. What is the best way to clean a blade like that? Or can you restore a knife like this for a nominal fee? The action is good though the blade is a little loose, and there is the rust thing.

LT, you nailed it and you have the pictures to prove it!

Thank you very much. Do you still have copies of your book for sale? This is truly a great Knife forum.

I am a member of an antique bottle forum that is a lot like this place. Very knowledgeable , friendly, and always willing to help people. Thank you all. Kelley

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:01 am

Try Paladinpress.com The collectors guide to switchblade knives. Thankyou for your interest. LT

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:38 am

You know Rich,

I believe your book is available here as well.....

http://www.knifeworld.com/colguidtoswi.html

Just as information, of course.

Bill

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:02 pm

You are correct Bill frankly I believe it also can be ordered through Amazon and Bookstores as well. I usually have a few copies for anyone who wants a signature however I just ran out. Thankyou for mentioning it. LT

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