Original Imperial handle materials

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Leo H
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Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Leo H »

So, I’m learning that this Imperial knife of my grandfather’s has the celluloid material that has been outgassing I don’t know how long, I have a few questions about that:

I don’t feel I have the tools or experience to try to replace them, should I still try? The knife is 3” long closed.

Is the celluloid something to throw away after removing it?

Should I just try to remove the handles and see if it’s cleanable, best as I can or, should I just send it to someone to properly replace the handles?

I would like to keep it period, how close can I date the knife by the celluloid use? What other material was likely used on a knife like this? I’d guess, wood, bone. Maybe stag?

Thank you for the inputs.
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Meridian_Mike
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Meridian_Mike »

Hello!

The yellow handle knife is celluloid. You can see in one of your pictures where the material is starting to gas off and it has discolored the bolster.
Your best move for now (if you can't find somebody that can change the handles out soon)... is to get those covers off. You can do that with a blade of some sort (I use a chinese knife that I don't mind beating on). You can push the blade between cover and the liner and tap it with a hammer. That should cut thru the pin. You will probably be able to break it away from the rocker pin to keep from cutting it.

The pictures are too dark for me to tell about the other knife. There is a chance it might have delrin covers. That won't give you any problems.

Good luck!

:D
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orvet
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by orvet »

DefinItely remove the celluloid ASAP. Throw away the celluloid, it can cause fires and is very corrosive.
I use a stout blade, slide it between the celluloid and the liner Al then twist. The celluloid looks so rotten it should slide around the pins or crumble without too much effort.
Scrub the knife with a brush, an old tooth brush works good, get the knife wet and put some baking soda on it and scrub it with the brush. The soda is a mild abrasive but won't scratch the knife, and it is also alkaline which will neutralizes the acid from the off gassing celluloid. Rinse the knife well and dry the knife by blowing it off with air if you have compressed air. The spray it lightly with WD-40. The WD-40 is not used as a lubricant, WD stands for Water Displacement. It will dry out the rest of the water. Then you can send it to someone to replace the handle, or replace it yourself.
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Leo H
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Leo H »

Meridian_Mike wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:27 am Hello!

The yellow handle knife is celluloid. You can see in one of your pictures where the material is starting to gas off and it has discolored the bolster.
Your best move for now (if you can't find somebody that can change the handles out soon)... is to get those covers off. You can do that with a blade of some sort (I use a chinese knife that I don't mind beating on). You can push the blade between cover and the liner and tap it with a hammer. That should cut thru the pin. You will probably be able to break it away from the rocker pin to keep from cutting it.

The pictures are too dark for me to tell about the other knife. There is a chance it might have delrin covers. That won't give you any problems.

Good luck!

:D
Yeah, just the yellow knife is the problem, the blue one is not marked, and even though a plain all steel knife, is in good, clean shape.

I don’t expect it to be an issue removing the old pieces, the pins were clearly steel and likely not even stainless.
When did the companies start realizing this was a problem, and was there one point where they decided not to use it? Does anyone keep any newspaper clippings of incidents with a knife causing damage to things? Those would be interesting to read.🤔
Leo H
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Leo H »

orvet wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:45 pm DefinItely remove the celluloid ASAP. Throw away the celluloid, it can cause fires and is very corrosive.
I use a stout blade, slide it between the celluloid and the liner Al then twist. The celluloid looks so rotten it should slide around the pins or crumble without too much effort.
Scrub the knife with a brush, an old tooth brush works good, get the knife wet and put some baking soda on it and scrub it with the brush. The soda is a mild abrasive but won't scratch the knife, and it is also alkaline which will neutralizes the acid from the off gassing celluloid. Rinse the knife well and dry the knife by blowing it off with air if you have compressed air. The spray it lightly with WD-40. The WD-40 is not used as a lubricant, WD stands for Water Displacement. It will dry out the rest of the water. Then you can send it to someone to replace the handle, or replace it yourself.
I’ll do that tonight. It’ll be interesting to see how well it cleans up under the handles.

I’ve gotten in the habit of saving baking soda my wife decides is too “old” to use, and I use that for cheap cleaner powder elsewhere.
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Reverand »

Handles can be replaced using just a few hand tools, if you decide that you want to try it. Wood is the easiest to work with. I would experiment on a couple of cheap knives first.
Most US companies stopped using celluloid by 1961 or 1962, but your knife is older. I believe that Imperial started making their knives As "shell-handled" knives (hollow sheet metal handles and bolsters) around the Great Depression. Without further research, I would guess that yellow handled knife might have been made in the 1920's.
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Leo H
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Leo H »

Reverand wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:15 pm Handles can be replaced using just a few hand tools, if you decide that you want to try it. Wood is the easiest to work with. I would experiment on a couple of cheap knives first.
Most US companies stopped using celluloid by 1961 or 1962, but your knife is older. I believe that Imperial started making their knives As "shell-handled" knives (hollow sheet metal handles and bolsters) around the Great Depression. Without further research, I would guess that yellow handled knife might have been made in the 1920's.
I think I'll keep my practicing on clean up on this, maybe try to remove the pins(pulling with pliers, not banging on anything), then send it to someone to finish disassembling it fully, clean it and put on new handles. I can still look for some other knives to practice on, and do that whenever; I'd rather have it done and done well and use it and I understand it'll be more money than the knifes value. :wink:
It needs complete disassembly and cleanup, so I'll leave it to an experienced set of hands, especially since this one's likely pre- WWII, at least.
Thank you for the information.
Attachments
20210608_171222.jpg
There's daylight between the spring and the bolster linings and corrosion between the spring and center scale.
There's daylight between the spring and the bolster linings and corrosion between the spring and center scale.
20210608_170902.jpg
Reverand
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Reverand »

I understand. It must be worth even more in sentimental value than in monetary value. I hope that you can pass it down to your own grandchildren someday!
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Leo H
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Re: Original Imperial handle materials

Post by Leo H »

I hope to do so, and I'm already writing little notes to leave describing the knives and their details. :)
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