Want to Attempt Refinishing...
Want to Attempt Refinishing...
I am interested in refinishing some knives. I am an avid woodworker and I actually make exotic wood grips for 1911 frame pistols. I have a shop full of beautiful wood that is too small to use for pistol grips. I thought I might give making handles for pocket knives a try. The problem is that I don't have the foggiest idea of how pocket knives work and how to assemble/disassemble them. I've read through some of the tutorials about removing the handles. I just need to pry off the existing handles, grind down the pins, and use the old handles as a template to trace the new ones with? When reading, I didn't see anything about how to secure the new handles onto the knife. Do I use some type of adhesive? I'm thinking about hitting up a knife or gun show and buying a few cheapy knives and giving this a try. Any suggestions?
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
go for it! that's my suggestion.
To answer a few of your questions, yes, you use an adhesive of some sort. everyone has their favorites. I like Locktite's Sumo, a foaming poly glue. Damn near indestructible.
You can grind down the existing pins and glue your handles overtop, or you can replace them altogether with new pins.
In our tutorials section, Dale (Orvet) has a great walkthrough on repair that applies just as easily to re-handling.
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 38&t=13147
I did a "work in progress" a while back on a big folder that I took alot of pictures from
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 14&t=10175
and I completely forgot about it until now, here is a page I did a few months ago for a "non-knife-person" about how I rebuild knives. It has alot better step by steps than my usual posts
http://darksev.com/Q40.html (this is an external link to my website)
If you have any questions along the way just drop me a message (the PM button right below this post)
To answer a few of your questions, yes, you use an adhesive of some sort. everyone has their favorites. I like Locktite's Sumo, a foaming poly glue. Damn near indestructible.
You can grind down the existing pins and glue your handles overtop, or you can replace them altogether with new pins.
In our tutorials section, Dale (Orvet) has a great walkthrough on repair that applies just as easily to re-handling.
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 38&t=13147
I did a "work in progress" a while back on a big folder that I took alot of pictures from
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 14&t=10175
and I completely forgot about it until now, here is a page I did a few months ago for a "non-knife-person" about how I rebuild knives. It has alot better step by steps than my usual posts
http://darksev.com/Q40.html (this is an external link to my website)
If you have any questions along the way just drop me a message (the PM button right below this post)
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
I guess with the new glues that are out there today you could just glue them on. And I guess I really do not know how all the new knifes are put together. But in the 'ole' days they were attached with brass rivets. 'IF' you can find some factory type rivets they have a hole or are hollow on one end so they can be 'bradded' on, on a knife anvil. You can just use a solid brass stock or rod, but it's kinda tricky untill you get the hang of bradding the rod.
Well anyway in the good 'ole' days we put them on with brass rivets or brass stock.
Probably not much help and i've been out of the field for a long time now. But I use to get alot of satifaction out of working on knifes with my dad.
carl
Well anyway in the good 'ole' days we put them on with brass rivets or brass stock.
Probably not much help and i've been out of the field for a long time now. But I use to get alot of satifaction out of working on knifes with my dad.
carl
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Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
Nice job darksev!!Good looking knife!!!
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
Those are excellent resources...especially the website of your own! That's a major help. I think my first attempt will be to just grind down the pins and rehandle over the top. If I do that without incident, I may try to replace all of the pins. If I do that, were do I find material to use for the new pins once I cut through the old ones? Is there someplace special I need to get the pins or anything specific I should ask for?
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
I've found brass rod down to 1/8 at my local hardware store, but for anything smaller (most of what I've run into is 3/32, and I use 1/16 for my small pins) your best bet is to pick some up at Jantz supply or a similar place (I say Jantz because that's where I get mine from). I generally stay away from stainless pins, but Nickel Silver and Brass are great to work with.
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
I was reading your site about using new pins. Near the end of the process, you say the "mushroom" the ends of the pins. How do I go about that? Just use a small hammer?
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
I have a small ball peen hammer (6-8oz I think). I polished both the flat and the rounded head so as not to transfer any marks to what I'm hitting. It was my grandad's hammer, so it's kinda sentimental
This should kind of give you an idea as to what your attempting. it goes from left to right, like a book . The final pin is what would happen if you sand without a hard backing. the wood wears away quicker than the pin leaving a raised metal edge. I try to avoid that on my knives as much as possible. The trick is not to treat it like your hammering a nail through a board. You leave the pin a little long to start with so that you can have the back side resting on your anvil/vise/hardmetalobject. gently tap the side of the pin facing you dead center with the hammer. It's better to have it take 100 light taps to swell the ends than try to do it in 5 and split your handle material. Once you get a good swell on one side, flip it over and do the other side. This goes for handle pins, rocker pins (the center pin that holds the spring in place), bolsters, you name it.
This second picture here is a normal pin, and a "just for show" pin. If you want the look of pins without having to peen ( I did my first few knives that way) you can drill the holes and use adhesive (green, in the illustration) to hold the pins in place. Modern adhesives are VERY capable of holding everything together without pins (for example, Chris Reeves uses what is effectively double stick tape for his sebenza inlays )
Oh, and for the record, when you break apart a slipjoint this is what it looks like with all the stuff still in the right place there's not much to it!
This should kind of give you an idea as to what your attempting. it goes from left to right, like a book . The final pin is what would happen if you sand without a hard backing. the wood wears away quicker than the pin leaving a raised metal edge. I try to avoid that on my knives as much as possible. The trick is not to treat it like your hammering a nail through a board. You leave the pin a little long to start with so that you can have the back side resting on your anvil/vise/hardmetalobject. gently tap the side of the pin facing you dead center with the hammer. It's better to have it take 100 light taps to swell the ends than try to do it in 5 and split your handle material. Once you get a good swell on one side, flip it over and do the other side. This goes for handle pins, rocker pins (the center pin that holds the spring in place), bolsters, you name it.
This second picture here is a normal pin, and a "just for show" pin. If you want the look of pins without having to peen ( I did my first few knives that way) you can drill the holes and use adhesive (green, in the illustration) to hold the pins in place. Modern adhesives are VERY capable of holding everything together without pins (for example, Chris Reeves uses what is effectively double stick tape for his sebenza inlays )
Oh, and for the record, when you break apart a slipjoint this is what it looks like with all the stuff still in the right place there's not much to it!
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
Those are EXCELLENT illustrations! Thanks again for providing some wonderful insight and directions. I'm about ready to tackle this project. I just need to find a cheap knife to use as my first vicitim.
Also, I see that you are mounting the scales to the knife at a slightly larger size and then sanding and filing them down when they're mounted to the knife. Is there a reason that you don't shape the scales to the exact size before mounting them to the knife? I see that you sanded/filed more on the ends and left a "swell" or "hump" in the scale in the middle. Is that something that has to be done or is it just an option that you choose to do? Can I make the scale totally flat on top instead of the swell/hump?
Also, I see that you are mounting the scales to the knife at a slightly larger size and then sanding and filing them down when they're mounted to the knife. Is there a reason that you don't shape the scales to the exact size before mounting them to the knife? I see that you sanded/filed more on the ends and left a "swell" or "hump" in the scale in the middle. Is that something that has to be done or is it just an option that you choose to do? Can I make the scale totally flat on top instead of the swell/hump?
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
I mount then profile because sometimes things can get slippy with glue and if your scales are exactly sized, you might end up a little left of center, so to speak. This way by the time I am shaping them there is no chance of them moving at all, and I get an exact fit. Same thing with the lines where the bolsters and the handle material meet. I want that transition to be as smooth as possible. the way I work, both of them get finished as one piece, so there is no "seam" so to speak.
The swelled center is just one way to do it. It can make a small or thin knife fit the hand a bit better. I have a few where I have put the handles almost flush as well. it just depends on what I feel like doing for a particular knife. The shaping of the ends to meet the bolsters is called hafting... I try to make mine as unnoticable as possible for the most part, so everything blends well, but on some knives with VERY thick stag you can see an extreme version of this.
Basically, you can do whatever you want to That's the fun of it. Your taking a knife and making it yours instead of someone elses.
If you want a reasonably easy place to start, try picking up some older Schrade Old Timer models. the way those are put together is with something called a "Swinden Key". There is only one "real" pin in the entire knife, so if you pop out the rocker pin (the middle of the handle one) they literally pop right apart in your hands. Replacing that one pin puts everything back into place. it saves you from having to work with bolster pins and pivots to start with
The swelled center is just one way to do it. It can make a small or thin knife fit the hand a bit better. I have a few where I have put the handles almost flush as well. it just depends on what I feel like doing for a particular knife. The shaping of the ends to meet the bolsters is called hafting... I try to make mine as unnoticable as possible for the most part, so everything blends well, but on some knives with VERY thick stag you can see an extreme version of this.
Basically, you can do whatever you want to That's the fun of it. Your taking a knife and making it yours instead of someone elses.
If you want a reasonably easy place to start, try picking up some older Schrade Old Timer models. the way those are put together is with something called a "Swinden Key". There is only one "real" pin in the entire knife, so if you pop out the rocker pin (the middle of the handle one) they literally pop right apart in your hands. Replacing that one pin puts everything back into place. it saves you from having to work with bolster pins and pivots to start with
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
On these Swinden Key knives, once the center pin is popped out, can it be reused or would I need to get material to make a new one to replace the one that was popped out?
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
Generally, once you grind off the head, you really can't re-use it. At that point it's best to replace. I'll dig around tonight and see if I have any swinden's torn apart and grab a picture or two of how they work.
- fergusontd
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Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
Darkserve. Is the "newtimer" from china built the same as the Old Timers of the past? Does it use the Swinden key and other internal parts as well? I thought of buying one to experiment with before trying to rehandle an Old Timer. fergusontd
"A pocketknife is a man's best friend!"
Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
To the best of my knowledge the only Swinden machine(s) was at Schrade.
I don't think anyone bought them for reuse.
The China Schrades should be pin-through-bolster construction.
Dale
I don't think anyone bought them for reuse.
The China Schrades should be pin-through-bolster construction.
Dale
Dale
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- fergusontd
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Re: Want to Attempt Refinishing...
Thank you Dale for that info. Chinese made cheaper not better! ftd
"A pocketknife is a man's best friend!"