"Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

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Robo
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"Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Robo »

Here's one I hope y'all enjoy. It's a Keen Kutter and I believe the pattern number is K-136 1905-1920 (see cat. pic). I'lll need some help in terms of who made these for Simmons--it'd be great to know. Thanks.

SEE PHOTOS FIRST

This pruner was the property of a Mr. Elvin H. Norcross, the etching on the pile side of the blade tells me so. The date below his name is 2-24-11. I have no idea what the significance of this date is. I'm pretty sure it isn't his birth date unless folks in the olden days were in the habit of giving children pruning knive with angry directives etched beside skull and crossbones on the blade. If the production dates are correct in Allen Sellens book, the oldest Elvin Norcross could be is 9; so I think we can elliminate that theory.

Perhaps this was an anniversary date:

Boss: "Ten Years at the Garden Center, Alvin, It's time you had your own pruner, m'boy!"

[Wild applause]

Wise acre: "Hey, Elvin, Why don't you use the pruner to cut the cake!"

Elvin: levels an icey stare at the heckler, and with a voice that cracks with suppressed rage says: "Dont. Butt. In."

[more wild applause]

Who can say? 1911 was three years before the outbreak of the Great War in Europe. We should bear this in mind when we investigate...

...The Mark side of the blade: it states "Don't Butt In" There is no exclamation point. But when you got a skull and cross bones riding shot-gun who needs any stinkin' exclamation point!

Who Did Elvin not want to Butt in? Were so many people getting up in his face, "putting their dang two cents in" that he finally armed himself against the nosey so and sos?

Elvin's wife: "Gosh sakes, Elvin, you come home from work every night, so irwitable and fwustrated, You work at a gardening center for gosh sakes, how bad can that be?"

Elvin: "I don't know, Fanny, they're always butting in down there--you know how much I hate people butting in..."

Fanny: "Buttin' in, buttin' in, gosh sakes, Elv, you're like a broken Edison Cylinder-- you oughtta etch "Don't Butt in" on yer dang pruning knife..."

Or has this always been his own personal philosophy of life?

Kermit: "Harry, go ask Elvin what he thinks about Clyde running off with the bosses wife."

Harry: "Nah--what's the point, you know Elvin don't like to butt in to other peoples business!"

Kermit: "Say, that's right--he's even got that etched on his pruner!"

Or maybe it was the principle of whomever presented him with this knife to aggresivly stay out of other peoples affairs. Although In that case wouldn't giving a knife to Elvin that foisted this perspective be a form of butting in? ....The mind reels!

Perhaps not butting in was Elvin's political stance. With things heating up in Europe in 1911, what better way to express a non-interventionist stance--and with real pinashe!

"Harry, Go ask Elvin if he's going to join up to fight the Huns if a war breaks out over in Europe."

"Nah--what's the point, you know Elvin don't like to butt into other country's business!"

"Say, that's right--he's even got that etched on his pruner!"

Alas, We'll never know the answer. Here we have a simple and direct statment spoken in the plainest English and it might as well have been written with ancient hieroglyphics. Hey-- we're pocket knife collectors--we never get easy answers--but we sure have a lot of fun with the questions!

Thanks for letting me share!
Attachments
KeenKutter Pocket Knives, Alvin Sellens
KeenKutter Pocket Knives, Alvin Sellens
K-136 Pruner 1
K-136 Pruner 1
K-136 Pruner 2
K-136 Pruner 2
K-136 Pruner 3
K-136 Pruner 3
K-136 Pruner 4
K-136 Pruner 4
K-136 Pruner 5
K-136 Pruner 5
woodwalker
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by woodwalker »

Great story and COOL knife!! :)
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

I love that knife.

That's the kind of thing I'd pay up for, regardless of brand and then spend two or three years trying to research it.

Were there actual "garden centers" in 1911?

Possibly in major cities where landscaping was prominent, but I suspect most everybody else relied on their local hardware or seed store.

We had a Hasting's Seed Store here on Second Avenue, downtown. In the old days, farmers came to town on Saturdays and they did their farm shopping at Hasting's and Berman's Mercantile, just across the street. There are old photos of horse and buggies and farm wagons parked in front of Hasting's.

I love that knife!!!

And there was an Elvin H Norcross living in Burlington, New Jersey, according to The 1920 Census.

He is listed in multiple genealogies on Ancestry.com, as Elvin Henderickson Norcross, born 1880 in Burlington, married to Ada C Peterson. No date of death shown.

Note the less than common spelling of the middle name.

I am not a subscriber to Ancestry.com, so the available info is limited.

A circa 1911 City Directory from Burlington might be informative, as to occupation, etc.

Charlie Noyes
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by peanut740 »

One heck of a knife! ::tu::
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Dinadan »

I love that knife! Good speculations about the meaning of the etch!
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Interesting knife. Given the agrarian nature of the economy at the time, Elvin could have had any number of uses for the knife. Probably not in a garden center.

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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by FRJ »

Fantastic knife and a great post.
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by kootenay joe »

Possibly "Don't Butt In" was an expression Elvin often used and this knife was given to him as a gift or award for service of some sort. The original blade etch would have had to be removed before these etches (both sides) were applied. What type of business in 1911 would be doing etches on knife blades ?
It looks like he did not use it much. A most unique knife !
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by eveled »

I think it may be from the isolationist movement in this country to stay out of Europe’s problems. We only entered ww1 because Germany was sinking American merchant vessels.
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Doc B »

Often, personalized engraving detracts from a knife. In this case it really looks like a well-done, personal effect, of days gone by. If it could just talk .::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::
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Robo
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Robo »

RobesonsRme.com wrote:I love that knife.

That's the kind of thing I'd pay up for, regardless of brand and then spend two or three years trying to research it.

Were there actual "garden centers" in 1911?

Possibly in major cities where landscaping was prominent, but I suspect most everybody else relied on their local hardware or seed store.

We had a Hasting's Seed Store here on Second Avenue, downtown. In the old days, farmers came to town on Saturdays and they did their farm shopping at Hasting's and Berman's Mercantile, just across the street. There are old photos of horse and buggies and farm wagons parked in front of Hasting's.

I love that knife!!!

And there was an Elvin H Norcross living in Burlington, New Jersey, according to The 1920 Census.

He is listed in multiple genealogies on Ancestry.com, as Elvin Henderickson Norcross, born 1880 in Burlington, married to Ada C Peterson. No date of death shown.

Note the less than common spelling of the middle name.

I am not a subscriber to Ancestry.com, so the available info is limited.

A circa 1911 City Directory from Burlington might be informative, as to occupation, etc.

Charlie Noyes
Charlie, I got this from a guy in Philadelphia! I'm going to double check. I asked him if he had any personal connection to Norcross and he said he didn't; nor did he have tatey info. I ran the name and got the usual: One U.S. Army general and 10 mugshots. Thanks for checking that out!
Robo
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Robo »

Mumbleypeg wrote:Interesting knife. Given the agrarian nature of the economy at the time, Elvin could have had any number of uses for the knife. Probably not in a garden center.

Ken
I hear you. Going for the laughs on that one!
Robo
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Robo »

Robo wrote:
RobesonsRme.com wrote:I love that knife.



And there was an Elvin H Norcross living in Burlington, New Jersey, according to The 1920 Census.

He is listed in multiple genealogies on Ancestry.com, as Elvin Henderickson Norcross, born 1880 in Burlington, married to Ada C Peterson. No date of death shown.


Charlie Noyes
Charlie, I got this from a guy in Philadelphia! I'm going to double check. I asked him if he had any personal connection to Norcross and he said he didn't; nor did he have tatey info. I ran the name and got the usual: One U.S. Army general and 10 mugshots. Thanks for checking that out!

Double checked: The listing was from Doyles Town PA. Seller looks like an Antique guy. the two towns are relatively close. So I'm thinking it didn't travel too far before it ended up in this seller's hands. I must have done something wrong when I attempted to search Ancestry. com. I couldn't ring anything out of that neck. Thanks again.
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Colonel26 »

I’m with Charlie, that’s my kind of knife! It’s wonderful in its own right, but that etching sends it over the top in my book!
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

Could have been an anniversary present from his wife.

Just sayin'....

Charlie
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by LongBlade »

I saw this knife in the Horticultural thread but didn’t see this thread on the knife ::tu:: ::tu:: ... Really interesting and I think Charlie is on to identifying some possible provenance behind it - very cool 8) ...

As an aside the latest knife magazine had an interesting article by Roy Shadbolt, at least to me, on his defining a story, history or provenance behind a knife... I think this knife is a wonderful example!
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Robo »

LongBlade wrote:I saw this knife in the Horticultural thread but didn’t see this thread on the knife ::tu:: ::tu:: ... Really interesting and I think Charlie is on to identifying some possible provenance behind it - very cool 8) ...

As an aside the latest knife magazine had an interesting article by Roy Shadbolt, at least to me, on his defining a story, history or provenance behind a knife... I think this knife is a wonderful example!

Thanks for the heads-up! I'll track down that article.
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by danno50 »

Very interesting knife! ::tu:: ::tu:: I love it!! I have to join in with Roland's speculation as to who would have removed the original etching and applied the new etching? It appears to be quite well done, especially the reverse etching on the mark side. It also has a tang stamp variation that I have not seen before, with the TRADE and MARK below the bar across the wedge.
The knife would probably have been made by the Walden Knife Co., as it was owned by Simmons between 1902 and about 1923.
If you don't mind, Robo, I would like to add your photos and a description to my Keen Kutter database?
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

Just because a catalog wood-cut shows the knife with an etch does not mean this knife left the factory with it.

Catalog production did not necessarily coincide with factory output.

There was a Schatt and Morgan catalog that illustrated every knife with a tang stamp that was never actually used.

I have seen multiple Robeson knives that had never been etched, but the catalog illustrated the same model with an etch.

Charlie
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by danno50 »

That is a very good point, Charlie. However, in my limited experience, the only Keen Kutters I have seen without a factory etch were either heavily cleaned or used to the point where the etch would have been gone. Regardless, my main point was that, whether or not there was an original etch, the OP knife definitely did not leave the factory with the etch that it now carries, and that etch appears to be fairly well done.
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by zoogirl »

What a great knife and isn’t speculation fun?!
I must say, I was a bit take aback by the floral engraving. I’ve been drawing almost the same flowers and vines since childhood. As a matter of fact, I’ve toyed with the idea of using the vines as a tattoo, either a ring or bracelet. My flowers have more pointed petals, but otherwise, it’s kind of freaky!
I wonder if someone got hold of the knife and added the ‘dont butt in’ as some kind of warning, then sent it back to ‘ol Elvin? Maybe he did someone wrong.
Ooooh, this is fun! :mrgreen:
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

"Don't Butt In" or words to that effect, are one of the primary rules of Knife Show Etiquette.

In other words, if you walk up on a deal, transaction or discussion in progress between a knife dealer and a customer, Don't Butt In.

So, that would be a great knife for a dealer to display on his table. ::tu::

Kind of like Tony Foster's placard that reads, "THIS AIN'T WAL-MART!!"

Charlie
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by wlf »

Unique knife. Looks like a homemade etch, rudimentary artwork. Who knows what the significance or connotation of the phrase “Don’t Butt In” had in 1911.

Norcross was probably the guy who did the etch or could be the recipient. JMO
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by danno50 »

The engraving on the pile side and the etch may have been done at different times. Elvin Norcross may have been a gardener who did the engraving on the back? Allthough, I did some searching on newspapers.com and the only Elvin Norcross I could find, from around 1911, was reported on for multiple counts of driving while impaired.
I like Charlie's speculation on the possible meaning of the Don't Butt In etch. Perhaps an early knife collector/dealer added that etch?
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Re: "Don't Butt In" or "The Angry Pruner"

Post by Robo »

danno50 wrote:Very interesting knife! ::tu:: ::tu:: I love it!! I have to join in with Roland's speculation as to who would have removed the original etching and applied the new etching? It appears to be quite well done, especially the reverse etching on the mark side. It also has a tang stamp variation that I have not seen before, with the TRADE and MARK below the bar across the wedge.
The knife would probably have been made by the Walden Knife Co., as it was owned by Simmons between 1902 and about 1923.
If you don't mind, Robo, I would like to add your photos and a description to my Keen Kutter database?
Absolutely!
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