Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

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jrzrob72
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Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

So, being from NJ I'm always looking for some lost treasures from home. I've always found Booth brothers NJ knives to be rare finds, at least in good condition. This was listed in the AAPK store last week so I grabbed it. I got it today and I'm really impressed with the construction of this knife. The knife should date 1903-1909 with the Sussex stamp. And the good luck swastika is pre-nazi regime which is pretty unique to find on a USA knife. All in all I really like like it!

So what I'd like to know is the shield on this original? It is not pinned from what I can see inside. To me it does look like it was manufactured with it on there or it has been on there a very long time. Also the formation of the swastika is in the good luck state and not inverted like the nazi-regime did to make it their own symbol. So it does make this swastika vintage IMO.
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Old Hunter
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by Old Hunter »

Prior to adopting the Thunderbird patch, the swastika was associated with the 45th Infantry Division of the Army National Guard (OK, AZ, CO, and NM), so the SW US version of the insignia and the time period of your knife would be historically correct. By the way, I have seen vintage 45th INF DIV patches with the swastika turned both ways - don't think standardization was as well established then as in the post WW-II era. OH

http://www.45thdivisionmuseum.com/Histo ... rbird.html

http://www.insigne.org/Swastika-I.htm
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

Old Hunter wrote:Prior to adopting the Thunderbird patch, the swastika was associated with the 45th Infantry Division of the Army National Guard (OK, AZ, CO, and NM), so the SW US version of the insignia and the time period of your knife would be historically correct. By the way, I have seen vintage 45th INF DIV patches with the swastika turned both ways - don't think standardization was as well established then as in the post WW-II era. OH

http://www.45thdivisionmuseum.com/Histo ... rbird.html

http://www.insigne.org/Swastika-I.htm
Thanks for that info, it does make sense then like you said for the time frame. I'm just a bit skeptical because you can see that it was glued on at some point in time. Was it done by the manufacturer at the time of being built? Was it placed there possibly by a serviceman of our country? It's not easy to find info about Booth Bros. knives online.

Thanks again!
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by stockman »

The shield looks to be cut a little irregular, it is possible that a previous owner made and
added it. Does it sit on the handle material or is it inset? Nice old knife!!

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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

I don't know when, where or by whom the shield was put on the knife, but if you expand the photo and look, the shield is just laying on a dollop of cement, glue, whatever.

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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

It sits on top of the bone scales. There is no cut into the bone that I can see. Hopefully the person I bought it from could add some info on it.

The knife otherwise is built really well. It's hefty, snaps hard, bone on it is in really good shape and thick. I don't have any other Booth Bros. to compare to, but other knives I have from early 1900's it stands with them in quality.
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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

RobesonsRme.com wrote:I don't know when, where or by whom the shield was put on the knife, but if you espand the photo and look, the shield is just laying on a dollop of cement, glue, whatever.

Charlie Noyes

That's why I started this thread. Just looking for a bit of insight though.

Would others leave it or try to remove it? It could probably be cleaned up pretty easily, however maybe there is some history behind it and should be left alone.

I would like the knife either way.
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by Old Hunter »

If it isn't original to the knive (and it sounds as if it is not) I would try to remove it, as the knife is too nice to be marred with a swastika. OH
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

Photo from national knife museum:
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by reddirtknives »

Would that be the Infamous Bad Luck Swastika? ::woot:: DOH, I just read it. Made by Queen with the Indian Good Luck Symbol... Maybe it was made for easy removal... ::shrug::
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by Miller Bro's »

It looks to me like someone put a Booth Bros. master blade in a Voos knife frame, then added the shield ::nod::

I have yet to see an original Booth Bro`s with Rogers jigged bone handles.
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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

Miller Bro`s wrote:It looks to me like someone put a Booth Bros. master blade in a Voos knife frame, then added the shield ::nod::

I have yet to see an original Booth Bro`s with Rogers jigged bone handles.

I think you could possibly be correct, which doesn't make me very happy having bought this from someones AAPK store. Guess I have to be more cautious all a round. Re-starting my hunt for another Booth Bros. Although I have seen images of Booth's with bone resembling this. The only thing throwing me off at this point is 4 pins, was that also a modification? Booth Bros. Swell Ends all have 4 pins as for most of their larger jacks. Most of the Voos that are similar have 3 pins, however, the bone on this knife is very similar to Voos.

Live and learn :|
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by Old Hunter »

If the knife is not correct and you bought it from a fellow AAPK member's store I think all you need do is contact them. I am batting a thousand with AAPK members; NEVER had an issue (quite the opposite of my e-bay experience!) Knowledgeable collectors can be fooled too, I will bet that an AAPK dealer will make it right for you immediately if the knife is not right. Best of luck to you, OH
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

Finding out that the shield is in fact pinned. Upon lifting it a little the pin is exposed.
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by Old Hunter »

On the close up view the mark side bolster doesn't look like it has been apart to me (caveat: I am not a cutler). How does the pile side of the bolster appear? OH
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

Old Hunter wrote:On the close up view the mark side bolster doesn't look like it has been apart to me (caveat: I am not a cutler). How does the pile side of the bolster appear? OH

Both bolsters look untouched to me
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jrzrob72
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by jrzrob72 »

Old Hunter wrote:If the knife is not correct and you bought it from a fellow AAPK member's store I think all you need do is contact them. I am batting a thousand with AAPK members; NEVER had an issue (quite the opposite of my e-bay experience!) Knowledgeable collectors can be fooled too, I will bet that an AAPK dealer will make it right for you immediately if the knife is not right. Best of luck to you, OH
I don't think the knife was sold under false pretense. I think anyone could be fooled or make the mistake with a really old knife (if it is a mistake on my part?). The seller told me what they could of the knife and shared the photo of the Queen knife in the museum that I posted earlier. I think I'm more interested in figuring the knife out now.
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by raincrowe »

I have Booth Bros. knife with Sussex NJ. stamp its got a shield!!
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by kootenay joe »

rain, i would like to see rest of your Booth Brothers knife.
Regarding discussion above from 2013 about swastika shield not being inlet you can see that the tiny pieces of bone that would be between the swastika arms would be too fragile to last long. Hence pin +/- glue without in letting is likely original.
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by raincrowe »

My Booth Bros knife is approx. 3 1/2' closed all original but has been used... both blades are stamped...the back-spring are down a little but snap well.... the handles have that smooth worn look...the knife is very good shape for it's age....that's the only one I have!
I've never seen another one.....here's some pictures hope they help!!
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Re: Booth Bros. Sussex NJ

Post by terryl308 »

Just a couple of comments on your Booth knife, I really like it and the jig bone scales are nice. As far as the swazstika symbol, it was used by the plains Indians also (I have a picture in a book somewhere) Dates to the 1800's. After enlarging your pics, I believe the shield has been put on by someone, you can see glue under it and the shield is rather crude, looks hand made to me, what is it made of? Nice anyway, thanks for showing it. ::tu:: Terry
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