Carriage Key / Prestolite Folder ID

[Ideaphore]

I picked this up at a local TSA sale for $7. It is in near mint condition, for what must be an old knife. The only markings are an 'R' on the cap lifter blade, and 'ROSTFREI' on the knife blade. The carriage key is on both springs. It has some kind of plastic scales and brass liners. A nicely made knife.

[btrwtr]

I know I have seen this "R" mark many times. Maybe someone else has a better idea. I think your knife may have been made by Richartz in Germany. They made many knives with the birds eye type rivets like those on your knife.

Wayne

[RobesonsRme.com]

Interesting knife, but why do I get the impression the knife was made well after the common usage of carriages and Pres-To-Lite lamps?

Charlie Noyes

[Ideaphore]

Yes, it shows little sign of wear and appears to have never been sharpened. A few minor scratches on the scales. It does not look 100 years old. A strange knife to find at a TSA sale.The carriage key is 1/4" across and the prest-o-lite wrench is 5/8". I cannot find any thing like it on Google, but maybe I am not searching for the right thing. Possibly it was made for some more current use.

[djknife13]

A Presto-lite key on my Ka-Bar scout knife is 3/16 of an inch square. I don't have a clue what that one is for.____Dave

[Ideaphore]

Here is a link to a very similar knife currently on eBay :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Odd-Rar ... 1526335954

Even has the same rivets. No info about the maker. Also it has one more blade. The carriage key has the exact same setup, operating on both springs.

From the description: "I have no idea what this knife was used for".

Marked down from $375 to $281

[wlf]

Yours has an old style kick on the primary blade, ??.. Odd duck

[Mason]

As Charlie suggests, this is a later (post WWII) style wrench knife. It was probably made for a valve on a steam radiator or gas appliance such as a fireplace. Enclosed is a picture of a similar model from the 1950s offered through the German firm of "H. Kaufmann". No description is given other than it is grouped with "standard tool pocket knives".

[knife7knut]

I believe that is a carpenter's knife and the square hole and stock are used in setting door knobs. The shaft size is the same as a conventional door knob. I have an older one that is French made(I think;the lettering on it is in French) and it has a single blade. The square stock is in the back and there is a screwdriver built into the center liner.

[wornoutwrench]

I can't imagine trying to turn a big T shaped tool behind a door knob.
Maybe our Euro friends have some insight on the true use of the square stock blade on that knife.

[djknife13]

I'm a carpenter and, though I've never seen one of these, it's makes alot of sense that this knife could be for setting the old style knobs with the square shaft. The square stock and the square hole appear about the right size, and would be useful depending on if the threaded rod is in the lock or if it's just a hole, and you need to open the door. I've used a screwdriver for this and a knife blade when I didn't have a screwdriver. ____Dave

[Miller Bro's]

Ray is on the right track.

These were marketed to house Painters. The square hole is indeed for turning the shaft on the old style "Mortise Lockset" door knobs and the folding or fixed screwdriver was used to take off the knob, which was secured via a single slot head screw on the underside of the door knob, it was also used for removing the backing plate or latch screws. The square folding shaft was used if the door latch shaft was removed, some of these also have a paint lid opener built into the tip of the square shaft. You will also find these with metal handles and the door knob shaft hole is made into the handle so the knife does not have to be opened to turn the knob which is much safer IMO.

I have seen a lot of these with French markings and most were made in Germany and France, the OP knife with the "R" marking is not the company initial rather it is marked "R" for Rostfrei which is stainless steel. In Europe such as France there are a lot of old style doors that have this type of hardware and these are probably still used to this day by the old timers over there. If you can imagine taking the door knob & shaft off all the doors in a room and then the doors accidentally close shut and you have no knobs, shaft or screwdriver to open the latch then you will see how handy one of these little gadget knives comes in when you really need one.

As to the price the fleabay seller is asking I think that sum is ridiculous, they sell in the $30-40 range in excellent condition, not much collector demand for these knives.

For those of you too young to know what type of door latch and knob I am talking about here is a picture and definition of a Mortise type lock set.

A mortise lockset is designed for doors using mortise locks, where a box lock is installed into a deep pocket or “mortise” in the edge of the door.

[Ideaphore]

Wow, thanks for the detailed post, and solving this mystery. Maybe I'll hand it off to my carpenter brother. One of my most interesting finds for sure. And in fact the tip of the square shaft is curved on one side, probably for opening a paint can.

[knife7knut]

Here is the picture of the knife I referred to in my original post. The word "pientures" is French for paint I believe. Note the extended tip on the backspring for opening paint cans.

[btrwtr]

Ray is on the right track.

I have seen a lot of these with French markings and most were made in Germany and France, the OP knife with the "R" marking is not the company initial rather it is marked "R" for Rostfrei which is stainless steel.

[/quote]

Thanks Dimitri!

Wayne

[wlf]

He's got everything Wayne. And studies them too.You'll get used to it.

I think Ray was also going for the title,he posts 'em 10 at a time.

[Miller Bro's]

Wow, thanks for the detailed post, and solving this mystery.

Your welcome

Maybe I'll hand it off to my carpenter brother.

That would be very nice of you!

And in fact the tip of the square shaft is curved on one side, probably for opening a paint can.

If you can get a photo of this on your knife for others to see that would be great

[jcfleming813930]

It's much like this one I found today while talking with an old friend. Any clue of the value?

[Ridgegrass]

Back to the "R":
"Rostfrei" is German for stainless. Here's a bit of an oddity. It's a half-moon stamp, UTICA CUTLERY, Utica N.Y. Muskrat with the "R" on each blade. Definitely stainless. Why would they use the German abbreviation ? Made for export ? Just abbreviating "rust-free" ?::shrug::
Also wonder what formula that early stainless was ? Nice old piece anyway. J.O'.