WW1 Rigging Knives

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Treasure Trawler
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WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by Treasure Trawler » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:49 am

Hey all, I picked up these pks and am wondering if these are both WW1 Rigging knives? The top I’m pretty sure is Camillus but makers mark is rubbed off and is missing a bale. I believe this is the same one listed in Michael Silvey’s military pk’s on page 38. The bottom is an EC Simmon Keen Kutter. I can’t seem to find any information. The jigging is awesome on this.
16139B0A-BC4E-4B49-8A38-F97DFA9400D5.jpeg
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Sharpnshinyknives
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:08 am

TT, It’s been awhile since I handled Keen Kutters, but from what I can see that tang stamp is more modern than WW1. I don’t have Allen Sellens book anymore but I am sure there is a tang stamp chart here on AAPK.
No idea on the other one.
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by Treasure Trawler » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:14 am

Here’s a better look at the tang stamp.
A922C345-506C-4252-8900-33D93ADD9297.png
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Sharpnshinyknives
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:36 am

I couldn’t see the St Louis, that does put it possibly in that range. I thought at first it was the stamp that was used last.
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by Treasure Trawler » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:50 am

It’s not listed in the military book but it sure looks like it must have been used in WW1. I’ve seen Schatt & Morgan’s built the same way and they were used in WW1.
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by danno50 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:47 am

I have no help on the possible Camillus. The Keen Kutter certainly looks like an older knife with the rattail iron bolster, old style can opener and the copper bail. It is not listed in Sellens. If it was made for the military maybe it was not listed in the catalogs for sale to the general public?
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by WelderBob » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:32 pm

This may help, other than yours having bone handles and no marlin spike they appear to be the same, from Levine's book.
I have read that the U.S. Navy would not issue pocket knives with spear blades at that time, why I do not know.
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by 1967redrider » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:54 pm

Treasure Trawler,

I have a Keen Kutter exactly like yours, with the copper bail and all. Nothing about it in Sellen's book (as danno50 stated) that I have found, I looked in Sargent's and Voyles too. ::shrug::

John
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by Treasure Trawler » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:10 am

I’ve heard somewhere that knives were included in lifeboats which wouldn’t have had the marlin spike. It’s a really well made knife you’d think there’d be more information.
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by kootenay joe » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:52 am

Here is my 4 3/4" Camillus 'Sailors Jack'. It has "S131" in black ink written on back of master blade. I asked Mike Silvey about this knife and he replied he had never seen one like it and referred me to Frank Trzaska. Frank said he had never seen one either but he has a lot of old Camillus paper work. He found a "Sketch Book 3" from 1915 that shows a sketch of "S131", my knife. Frank says Camillus likely made a 'few' like maybe 5 to show the knife but it was never put into production.
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1967redrider
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by 1967redrider » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:41 am

Here's the one I have, E C Simmons Keen Kutter St. Louis USA. Half stops, snaps like a bear trap.
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by kootenay joe » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:50 am

Is the E.C.Simmons 4 3/4" closed , not including the bail ?
kj

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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by orvet » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:26 am

Treasure Trawler wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:49 am
Hey all, I picked up these pks and am wondering if these are both WW1 Rigging knives? The top I’m pretty sure is Camillus but makers mark is rubbed off and is missing a bale. I believe this is the same one listed in Michael Silvey’s military pk’s on page 38. The bottom is an EC Simmon Keen Kutter. I can’t seem to find any information. The jigging is awesome on this.

16139B0A-BC4E-4B49-8A38-F97DFA9400D5.jpeg
I'm not sure your top knife is the same as the one on page 38 of Mike Silvey's book. Yours has a rat tail bolster and the Camillus shown in that picture does not. Your knife does not have the bail that the Camillus has and I don't see a hole in the handle where the the bail would've been.

Your larger knife reminds me somewhat of my Canadian Navy rigging knife made by Camillus during World War I. The tang stamp is dated 1915.
Camillus 1915 b.jpg
Camillus 1915 c.jpg
Camillus 1915 Canadian Navy tang c.jpg
Camillus 1915 g.jpg
Camillus 1915 Marlinspike marking.jpg
Camillus 1915 Marlinspike marking.jpg (35.32 KiB) Viewed 235 times
Note the last picture show an arrow in a circle which indicates it was a knife made for the Canadian Navy. I am told they use that mark much like the Royal Navy uses a broad arrow marking.
You might check your knife for for an arrow in a circle, the can opener looks to be very similar.

Whenever they are, I like your old knives. It's hard to argue with that bone! ::tu::
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1967redrider
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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by 1967redrider » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 pm

kootenay joe wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:50 am
Is the E.C.Simmons 4 3/4" closed , not including the bail ?
kj
Mine is pretty much exactly 4".


That's a cool knife, Dale. ::tu:: ::tu::
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

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Re: WW1 Rigging Knives

Post by Treasure Trawler » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:34 pm

Here’s a better pic of the bale hole on the Camillus in question. Take a look at the pins and the bale hole. It measures 4 3/8. I believe they match up to the WW1 Camillus on Pg38.

The EC Simmon measures 4”. This must be a WW1 military knife? The copper bale was made specially for non spark around munitions I believe?
E9557357-2CAE-495A-99F7-026A48FF087E.jpeg
The grass withers the flower fades but the Word of our God stands forever. Isa 40:8

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