5365

[knife7knut]

I have a question. By some of the replies I have gathered that some of you believe it’s an obvious fake. To my eyes, it seems like a good knife,(not 2,800 dollars good) but that just shows what I know. I’m not a case expert, and I’m not very good at spotting fakes. So if some of you could with more knowledge could tell me some of the noticeable things that are the biggest red flags, I would appreciate it! I would love to know more about these, that’s why I ask this question.
—BENJAMIN—

Here is what makes me question the validity:
The red background which has always been an indicator of possible deception.
The frame looks like an earlier iteration than 1940.
The,"cotton sampler" blade looks like a re-profiled pruning blade.I've NEVER seen a cotton sampler blade in that shape.
And most importantly:there is not one picture of the tang stamp area.
Just my humble opinion folks

[Ben Ogle]

[/quote]
Here is what makes me question the validity:
The red background which has always been an indicator of possible deception.
The frame looks like an earlier iteration than 1940.
The,"cotton sampler" blade looks like a re-profiled pruning blade.I've NEVER seen a cotton sampler blade in that shape.
And most importantly:there is not one picture of the tang stamp area.
Just my humble opinion folks
[/quote]
I also noticed that there was no picture of the tang stamp, I wondered why.

[knifegnome]

I sent the seller a message asking for clear photos of each tang stamp for all three blades,here is the message I received.

New message from: 2ndgenerationxxknifeseller Top Rated Seller(14,863YellowShooting Star)
Good morning Scott,The main Clip blade frontside tang stamped Case XX,The Skinner blade and Cotton sampler blade are not stamped,which is normal as this Knife easily could be a “one off employee Lunch box knife” according to Case,which I already knew.I guarantee it’s authentic ,I have been Collecting and Authenticating Vintage Case knives as long as my late Friend and Case Ambassador The late Mr.Jim Sargent,Thank You,Tony B.

[Colonel26]

Me thinks he doth protest too much concerning his credentials.

[Berryb]

I also am no expert when it comes to case knives (or anything else for that matter). The first thing I noticed was the stag. In order to be that worn it would have to be slipped in and out of the sheath thousands of times over the years. The sheath, while worn, is not that worn, all the stitches are intact, and there are no holes worn in it. The blades should have been sharpened hundreds of times. I dunno, somthin' aint right. Thanks
Bruce

[herbva]

ebay 324261955780 check this out.

Harold

I thought I'd seen this "creation" before. I'm glad that I remembered - I think this is the same one that I posted a while back.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=66076&p=800745&hilit=5365#p800745

[Reverand]

I am far from being an expert, but the stag IS far more worn than the blades, and unless it is a trick of the light the weird "cotton sampler" blade has a different patina than the other two blades.
Between that, the name-dropping, and no tang pics after a request for them, I believe this to be a cobbled knife.

[mightyzaa3]

Just for fun, I put this knife on my ebay watch list. And I figured right, I got a special offer. On this "ultra rare" knife, he offered $500 off. And the belt sheath looks to have the Job Case face on it. And the snap looks brand new. And to be a self proclaimed expert. What a jokester. Or is that fraudster.

[1967redrider]

ebay 324261955780 check this out.

Harold

I thought I'd seen this "creation" before. I'm glad that I remembered - I think this is the same one that I posted a while back.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=66076&p=800745&hilit=5365#p800745

Good catch, Herb! Looks like he's playing the Second Time Around card, I'm sure it won't go away quietly.

[kootenay joe]

ebay 324261955780 check this out.

Harold

I thought I'd seen this "creation" before. I'm glad that I remembered - I think this is the same one that I posted a while back.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=66076&p=800745&hilit=5365#p800745

Definitely the same knife. The earlier ebay listing has been removed so cannot see if it is the same seller.
This is a FAKE knife. I am not a Case collector but i feel confident in saying "fake". Might be worth $50 just to show what some people will try to sell and claim it to be all original.
kj

[olderdogs1]

Here are the questions I have about the knife.and please let me know if I am correct. In his description he mentions that the Cotton Sampler Blade has a narrower back spring. However from the pictures it would appear that the back spring that is narrower is actually the spring for the front blade? Also I don’t see a picture of the knife’s pile side? I may be looking at it wrong but that is how it appears to me.

Tom

[herbva]

Here are the questions I have about the knife.and please let me know if I am correct. In his description he mentions that the Cotton Sampler Blade has a narrower back spring. However from the pictures it would appear that the back spring that is narrower is actually the spring for the front blade? Also I don’t see a picture of the knife’s pile side? I may be looking at it wrong but that is how it appears to me.

Tom

Tom, I think you are correct on both counts. The narrower spring clearly serves the skinner blade on the front of the knife, and I see no picture of the pile side. As has been previously mentioned, the blade that the seller calls a "cotton sampler" obviously has no where near the same patina as the other two blades, and doesn't really look like a cotton sampler that I am familiar with. I'm guessing that a large, wide spear blade from some other manufacturer was repurposed and reprofiled for this charade.

[just bob]

I can understand some of the seller's boasts. As collectors we are or become at some point appraisers, researchers, dealers, and students. However it seems to me that you cross a dangerous threshold when you declare yourself a historian. Let alone one with 49 years experience. Here is a copy and paste from Wikipedia;

A historian is a person who studies and writes about the past and is regarded as an authority on it.[1]

To be considered a true historian a person must have written on a subject and also be considered an authority on it. I would think this would be more than a magazine article or a letter to the editor. This writing would require extensive research and should bring forward new information or a new understanding on a particular subject. We have some true Case historians on AAPK that have met those criteria. There are others as well including those at the Case factory. I don't know who this seller is and maybe he is a published author?
it just seems to me that he is lacking basic knowledge on many subjects. It also irks me that he has invoked the good name of Jim Sargant to peddle such an obvious example of a sham knife that draws criticism from knowledgeable collectors and true Case knife historians.

[cbfd]

Check out the sellers last picture in his Ebay ad.The length of the tang area on the so called cotton sampler blade is much shorter than on the 2 other blades.I think on a legitimate knife,the blade tangs would match in length.They are on the posted 6365 with the sawblade! Bill

[Madmarco]

Just for fun, I put this knife on my ebay watch list. And I figured right, I got a special offer. On this "ultra rare" knife, he offered $500 off. And the belt sheath looks to have the Job Case face on it. And the snap looks brand new. And to be a self proclaimed expert. What a jokester. Or is that fraudster.

I also put this one on my "Watch List", and sure enough I too got a "special" offer, but mine was only a $300. discount. I'm very far from knowing ANYTHING about Case knives, but it seems to me the seller puts WAY too much emphasis on the Cotton Sampler blade in his description, almost to the point of overselling it, in an attempt to convince potential buyers of it's authenticity. As I said, I know nothing about Case knives, but even to a novice like me, I noticed the shorter back spring and incorrect position on the knife almost immediately, not to mention his broken English! P.S.-When I declined his offer I sent a note saying his knife is a fake and he should be ashamed for trying to sell it as genuine. Hope he messages me back with a further explanation, BS, fable, fairytale, etc.!

[mightyzaa3]

Good for you Madmarco. Please let us know what he comes back with. If he does. This has been a fun thread to keep an eye on. And someone with his many years of experience better come up with a good excuse or be able to back up his claim. Think he done shot himself in the foot, poor guy. Wish Knifeaholic would post on this. That would be very interesting.

[btrwtr]

No way that the "cotton sampler" blade is either Case made or original to the knife. The blade kick and position of the blade grind shoulder are completely wrong. The fact that this is a newer high pull XX 65 pattern would not coincide with the time frame for a cotton sampler blade. No solid historical facts or referreference about the knife just a $2750 dollar story and an altered $50 knife. Not sure what it is or where it came from but cobbled I'm sure.

Not sure how old the sheath is but looks very modern and surely made well after the XX stamped knives. Maybe someone that knows the newer Case knives can tell us when the sheath was made.

[stockman]

My knife “Buddy” Dennis spotted this on eBay. He thought it was laughable. It has been fun to read the reply’s. I didn’t remember it being on earlier.Harold

[just bob]

Has anyone else noticed the huge gap on the makers side between the spring and liner? There isn't a gap on the pile side. Obviously the bottom of the knife has been cleaned up. Is this the same hand holding knives in these old threads?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=64128


viewtopic.php?f=17&t=67418&p=832759#p832759

[Madmarco]

Good for you Madmarco. Please let us know what he comes back with. If he does. This has been a fun thread to keep an eye on. And someone with his many years of experience better come up with a good excuse or be able to back up his claim. Think he done shot himself in the foot, poor guy. Wish Knifeaholic would post on this. That would be very interesting.

No response so far Mighty! My message to him was so direct that he might think that I"M a true historian/expert, and since he doesn't have a leg to stand on he may think that I would have a counter for anything he tries to tell me. Who knows! If I do hear from him I'll definitely post what he had to say though.

[Madmarco]

Has anyone else noticed the huge gap on the makers side between the spring and liner? There isn't a gap on the pile side. Obviously the bottom of the knife has been cleaned up. Is this the same hand holding knives in these old threads?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=64128


viewtopic.php?f=17&t=67418&p=832759#p832759

I noticed that gap too Bob! And I'd bet green money that those are the exact same hands, ring, carpet, etc. in all the pics!

[mightyzaa3]

still on the bay. same price. still on my watch list. no new offer. darn