W.R. Case & Son (No ‘s) 1902-1903 Help Please.

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

Hello my name is Chad, I’ll start by saying thank you for any comments. I recently purchased an estate lot with a 1902-1903 W.R. Case & Son (No ‘s) Barehead Jack, single blade (spear point w/ match strike), measures 3 3/4” closed & 7 1/2” open, missing what appears to be a Bowtie/Gimp shield, & jigged green bone scales w/ worm grove. I know it was likely made by another cutlery (possibly Platts, Cattaraugus or others) & that’s where I’m stuck. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find any info on the knife or any that are similar Has any one seen or have any info? I’m pretty confident it’s original & hasn’t been worked on, but welcome comments & opinions! THANK YOU!!!

[btrwtr]

The bone does loook quite like Cattaraugus bone. I am curious why you say you are pretty confident it hasn't been worked on. Do you know the history of the knife?

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

The bone does loook quite like Cattaraugus bone. I am curious why you say you are pretty confident it hasn't been worked on. Do you know the history of the knife?

I say that, as well as ask for thoughts/opinions because I haven’t found any evidence that suggest it has been worked on. I do not know it’s history. I’m definitely no expert & am in no way stating it’s 100% original. I’m not in any way making claims or defending the knife, just seeking more knowledgeable opinions. The things I see/don’t see, point me to believe it is. I would be a little surprised if someone spent time working on a Case knife of this age without replacing the shield, reshaping the blade (definitely been used & sharpened!) or polishing the blade up a bit. I have not touched it with anything other than a cloth to protect it from my hands. I am curious why you ask. Do you see something that suggest otherwise? Thank you & PLEASE don’t hold back!

[1967redrider]

Steve, Ken or a few others (well, actually Wayne is one of the few others) will know. Thanks for posting.

John

[gsmith7158]

The visible blade pin and the fact that the blade doesn't really match at the spring when opened gives me pause. I would suspect this a cobbled knife.

[Mumbleypeg]

I see the same aspects Greg points out. Can you give us a picture of the knife spine/backspring-to-blade run-up,with the blade fully open?

Ken

[1967redrider]

Are you trying to gauge the widths of the spring and blade, Ken? Hard to tell from this picture.

An old -031? Couldn't find anything in Sargent's.

[Madmarco]

Hello my name is Chad, I’ll start by saying thank you for any comments. I recently purchased an estate lot with a 1902-1903 W.R. Case & Son (No ‘s) Barehead Jack, single blade (spear point w/ match strike), measures 3 3/4” closed & 7 1/2” open, missing what appears to be a Bowtie/Gimp shield, & jigged green bone scales w/ worm grove. I know it was likely made by another cutlery (possibly Platts, Cattaraugus or others) & that’s where I’m stuck. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find any info on the knife or any that are similar Has any one seen or have any info? I’m pretty confident it’s original & hasn’t been worked on, but welcome comments & opinions! THANK YOU!!!

I can't help with your questions Chad, but as I'm sure you've read others can! I sure do like your knife though! BTW, to AAPK!

[btrwtr]

The first thing I noticed about the knife is that an old single blade jack of this size and pattern is quite uncommon to find. That coupled with the irregular shape of the head and tail pins leads me to suspect that this knife may have once been a two blade jack. It could have been repaired at some point in time for functionality rather the an attempt to fool anyone. Not sure but those were my initial impressions.

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

Thank you all for the replies! They are MUCH appreciated!! Ken, I’ll get a pick & load it ASAP.

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

The first thing I noticed about the knife is that an old single blade jack of this size and pattern is quite uncommon to find. That coupled with the irregular shape of the head and tail pins leads me to suspect that this knife may have once been a two blade jack. It could have been repaired at some point in time for functionality rather the an attempt to fool anyone. Not sure but those were my initial impressions.

That was my 1st thought when I received the knife. Has a small gap running from bolster to approximately the center pen, between front (shield side) liner & back spring.

[Mumbleypeg]

What I’m looking for is this.

The area where the back of the blade meets the backspring (I call it the “run-up”) can tell you a lot about a knife. Easier to tell with knife in-hand than from pictures. Do the parts match up squarely? Is the back of the blade more worn or pitted, or have different patina, than the spring? (Or visa versa). Are the liners tight against the blade and against the frame? Or is the blade wider or narrower than the spring? Do scratches on the liners extend to/align with scratches on the backspring?

These are things to look for in determining authenticity. It’s possible in some cases for a knife to exhibit some of these from hard use/abuse. But if they are present it’s a good indication the knife possibly has been worked on, the blade replaced, buffed, tang shaved and re-stamped, etc, and further examination is warranted. JMO

Ken

[OLDE CUTLER]

The first thing I noticed about the knife is that an old single blade jack of this size and pattern is quite uncommon to find. That coupled with the irregular shape of the head and tail pins leads me to suspect that this knife may have once been a two blade jack. It could have been repaired at some point in time for functionality rather the an attempt to fool anyone. Not sure but those were my initial impressions.

I would tend to agree with that assessment. This knife has had a long and hard life. Could have had the 2nd blade broken and shield lost early in its life. Someone just trying to keep it in the pocket and working.

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

Here are a few pics…I can load more if needed. Thanks again EVERYONE!!

[Mumbleypeg]

What I see appears to indicate the knife has been worked on. There appears to be a “step up” from the spring to the blade instead of a straight smooth interface. Also the blade appears wider than the spring. The existing blade wasn’t originally matched with the existing spring.

Best case Wayne’s theory that the knife was originally a two-blade jack and one blade was removed. Worst case the blade isn’t original to the frame. JMO

Ken

[gsmith7158]

With the information that is available on knives from the Case and Son era I'm inclined to agree with Wayne that this knife was probably modified to Increase it's longevity of usefulness and it may well be a combination of a frame from one company and a blade from another.

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

What I see appears to indicate tge knife has been worked on. There appears to be a “step up” from the spring to the blade instead of a straight smooth interface. Also the blade appears wider than the spring. The existing blade wasn’t originally matched with the existing spring.

Best case Wayne’s theory that the knife was originally a two-blade jack and one blade was removed. Worst case the blade isn’t original to the frame. JMO

Ken

I soooo appreciate your opinion! Thank you for your time & eyes!

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

With the information that is available on knives from the Case and Son era I'm inclined to agree with Wayne that this knife was probably modified to Increase it's longevity of usefulness and it may well be a combination of a frame from one company and a blade from another.

I haven’t been able to find much info at all on Case & Son era. Even a google search hasn’t provided me with many examples. A few in K & R, few in old knives, XX and more, other than that not much luck. Do you have any suggestions on reference material?

[Mumbleypeg]

There is a section on Case & Son with some historical info and some photos of examples in Sargent’s Premium Guide 7th Edition.

Ken

[gsmith7158]

What Ken said. It's the best reference on Case knives available.

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

There is a section on Case & Son with some historical info and some photos of examples in Sargent’s Premium Guide 7th Edition.

Ken

Thank you Ken! I have looked in K&R 5th and 6th editions, but not 7th. Now I just need to figure out where I put it

[btrwtr]

If you look through all the old guides for any brand of knife you will find that single blade jack knives of this pattern and size are very few and far between. Single blade jacks over 4" long are common. You can find boy's knives, Barlows, hawkbills, maize, grafting, budding knives, spaying and several other specialized patterns of jack knives in this less than 4" range but very few single blade regular pattern jacks like your knife. That is the first indicator that the knife is unusual. Given the appearance of the pins and that the blade thickness appears to be greater than the thickness of the back spring it looks like this knife has had some changes at some time in the past. Chances are the frame and blade were once parts from two separate knives.

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

If you look through all the old guides for any brand of knife you will find that single blade jack knives of this pattern and size are very few and far between. Single blade jacks over 4" long are common. You can find boy's knives, Barlows, hawkbills, maize, grafting, budding knives, spaying and several other specialized patterns of jack knives in this less than 4" range but very few single blade regular pattern jacks like your knife. That is the first indicator that the knife is unusual. Given the appearance of the pins and that the blade thickness appears to be greater than the thickness of the back spring it looks like this knife has had some changes at some time in the past. Chances are the frame and blade were once parts from two separate knives.

I was actually just looking through Levine’s Guide To Knives 4th Edition (Pg. 177 & 183 for reference). According to him a pattern called a “Stabber Jack” (3 1/2” to 4”) was the poor man’s folding dirk. I 100% agree with it being unusual & the 1st indicator, main reason I posted it. Trust me, I’ve turned some pages looking! I only bring this up now for my own curiosity on the “stabber Jack” pattern, as I’ve never heard the term used on anything other than a swell center Jack.

This knife actually had nothing to do with my purchase & was a complete surprise, but it sure sparked my interest. I truly am thankful to all of you for your thoughts & opinions!

Thank You!
Chad

[1967redrider]

With the bone and jigging, coupled with the fact that Cattaraugus used Bomb shields, you could have a mismatched knife as previously mentioned above. I doubt changing it from a 2 blade to a 1 blade Case knife would result in the tang spline sticking out above the spring. Just my 2¢.

John

[Buckeye_CRAZY]

With the bone and jigging, coupled with the fact that Cattaraugus used Bomb shields, you could have a mismatched knife as previously mentioned above. I doubt changing it from a 2 blade to a 1 blade Case knife would result in the tang spline sticking out above the spring. Just my 2¢.

John

W.R. Case & Son was a knife brokerage firm founded by Russ Case. Russ Case purchased knives for his brokerage business on contract from Platts Brothers Cutlery Co., Cattaraugus Cutlery Co. and others. Consequently, there were many pattern variations during the 1902-1905 period preceding the establishment of their own factory. They were various tang marks on the contract knives during this period.