Useful Links for Military related Knives

A place to discuss military related knives and tools. Conversation relating to objects of war and peace from all eras welcome.
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orvet
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Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby orvet » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:03 am

I was asked to post some links in a sticky thread for folks to reference.
These are some good links to research military related knives, both American & European.

Thanks for the links Gringo, great information in them!
-Dale


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gino
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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby gino » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:20 am

Thanks Dale, nice to see them up and hope me trying to help didnt hold you back to much, lol ;)
-( life is too short to carry a cheap knife )-

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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby gringo » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:32 pm

here is a good one on bayonete identification...the weird little variants.

http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/190 ... yonets.htm

swords links.
http://arms2armor.com/Swords/usswords.htm

main site:http://www.arms2armor.com/index.htm

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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby coffeecup » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:33 pm

I'd not want to be without the collected information at Frank Trzaska's site US Military Knives http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/. Gibson and Ruleford's Military Fighting Knives is often useful in identifying knives, as well as showing examples in excellent condition http://www.militaryfightingknives.com/. Some of the best discussion of US military knives takes place on the USMilitaria knife forum http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showforum=8 (even if the new site design is painful to look at). While membership is required, the Military Knives and Daggers of the World forum is often useful in identifying military knives of other countries http://gotavapen.se/market/index.php?sid=23ae58a0f14e02e3b13560a49199bf70.

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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby junebug » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:06 am

AWESOME GUYS!!!! 8)

NICE THREAD! ::tu:: ::handshake::







JUNEBUG 8) 8)
"Because tellin' people , i like having a SPYDIEHOLE sounds sooo much better than a THUMBHOLE"
- Junebug 2016


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orvet
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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby orvet » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:44 pm

Great link Donald!
Thanks! ::tu::

BTW, has anyone here tried to grip one of these German daggers?
They may look cool but they are impossible to get a comfortable grip on them.
The points that stick down on the pommel are quite uncomfortable where they dig into the fleshy part of the hand!
I guess they were made to look good, not to really use! Image
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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby jerryd6818 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:09 pm

For Fairbairn Sykes commando knives, my go to site is http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/fs/fs_knife1.htm
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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby coffeecup » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:45 am

Orvet, the various WWII German daggers (SA, SS, etc) were designed after the earlier Swiss "Holbein dagger," which in turn descended from the baselard. In Swiss history, they were usually paired with a katzbalger (or occasionally a kriegmesser, or both). Right about now a few folks are wondering how the design got to Germany, and why it matters. . . .

Way back about 1485-1490, Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor, king of many places including Germany, Archduke of Austria, etc, etc, started the landsknechte. This was originally a mercenary regiment consisting largely of German pikemen. Emperor Maximilian hired a German (well, we'd call him a German now, then he was a Swabian) named Georg von Frundsberg to organize the landsknechte; he, in turned, hired Swiss mercenaries (mostly officers) to train the landsknechte. This is where the Holbein dagger (and katzbalger and kriegmesser) appeared in German military history.

The landsknechte were early adopters of firearms to supplement and support their pike men, something many other armies and mercenary regiments were slower to do. Particularly in later years, the landsknechte were also almost what we'd today consider to be a "mixed multinational force."

The National Socialist party co-opted a lot of earlier Germanic history and folklore to try to support the legitimacy of the Third Reich. Katzbalgers and kreigmessers were inconveniently large, but that iconic dagger was much easier for people to carry and display, and at least subconsciously signal that the bearer was a soldier. This was done in other areas as well: if you look at the silhouette of some of the uniform designs (not just military--everyone and their dog had a uniform in Nazi Germany, and many groups such as the postal service even had special rifles and bayonets!), you can see similarities to "Almain rivet" (a type of armor worn by the landsknechte at one point). The mixed-nationality aspect of the landsknechte was mentioned a couple times in defense of the decision to add troops of other nationalities to the Heer and Waffen-SS.

During WWII, the Holbein-pattern dagger was never really intended to be a combat weapon; it was a badge of office or membership. It did get used in combat at times: the fighting near the end in Stalingrad comes to mind, as well as a couple of instances during pseudo-surrenders near the end of the war. By all accounts it was an effective weapon.

A friend of mine was a Kripo--Kriminalpolizei (police detective)--during and after the war. He's mentioned investigating a couple of murders where one of these daggers was used. His thoughts are that the grip lock's the user's hand in place, so it didn't slip over the guard in stabbing, or slip from the hand when the user attempted to withdraw the knife from victim. The grip shape forced the user to rely on power in the stroke, rather than finesse. As a result, what he saw in murder victims was multiple deep stab wounds, and tremendous loss of blood.

While the daggers didn't get much actual use, and were largely symbolic, when put to their original use they seem to have been just as effective as the original Holbein daggers.

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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby gringo » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:16 pm

http://www.lodz-ghetto.com/kripo.html,10

http://ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/wielen1.htm
http://www.tutorgigpedia.com/ed/Kriminalpolizei

The Kriminalpolizei was mainly concerned with serious crimes such as rape, murder and arson. A main area of the group's focus was also on "blackout burglary," considered a serious problem during bombing raids when criminals would raid abandoned homes, shops and factories for any available valuables. The Kripo was also one of the sources of manpower used to fill the ranks of the Einsatzgruppen and several senior Kripo commanders, Artur Nebe among them, were assigned as Einsatzgruppen commanders.


Kripo researchers measure a Sinti boy's head in anthropological studies of criminals, Stuttgart in 1938As part of the Nazi doctrines on crime and race, the Rassenhygienische und Bevolkerungsbiologische Forschungsstelle () headed by Nazi psychiatrist Dr. Robert Ritter, was attached to the Kriminalpolizei. Its role was to create racial profiles of non-aryans, in particular, Roma. Both the Gestapo and the Kripo deferred their policies and guidelines to the Criminal Biological department on how to deal with Gypsies.[6] The Kripo aided in the round ups of Roma and their deportations to concentration camps and extermination camps.

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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby coffeecup » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:57 pm

gringo wrote:http://www.lodz-ghetto.com/kripo.html,10
as
Aside from operating under the same name, I'm not sure what the actions of a bunch of war criminals have to do with the observations of a Karlsruhe-area police detective regarding the use of military daggers during the years 1939-1952, or the history of a regional military dagger variant.

Oh wait, I see: nothing.

I'm done with trolls, and I'm done with this thread.
Quality should not be an accident. So what is the explanation for some of the knives we've seen in the past few years? (from A Knifebuyer's Manifesto)


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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby dutchy357 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:15 am

Hi Guys

It it's not considered too cheeky. I would like to list my web page for inclusion here. :D

The Australian Military Knives Web Page.

http://www.australianmilitaryknives.com/

This site is dedicated to the manufacturers and the men and woman of the Australian Army, Navy and Air Force and the forces of the allied nations who carried and used Australian made knives in the defence of our freedoms.


Regards Dutchy
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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby orvet » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:49 am

Thanks Dutchy!

We don't often get links with Australian knife info, I am glad to have it! ::nod::
I have always wondered, do you have factories in Australia that make pocket knives, or are most imported?

Thanks again! ::tu::
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Re: Useful Links for Military related Knives

Postby dutchy357 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:57 am

orvet wrote:Thanks Dutchy!

We don't often get links with Australian knife info, I am glad to have it! ::nod::
I have always wondered, do you have factories in Australia that make pocket knives, or are most imported?

Thanks again! ::tu::


Hi Dale

Sadly, there is no Cutlery Industry in Australia.

The only evidence I have found for pocketknife manufacture in Australia was the WW2 and post war production from a limited number of engineering firms who tooled up to make knives for the war effort. The most prolific and the most long lasting was Whittingslowe Engineering in Adelaide. They did not survive the post war era and closed their doors in the 1950's. As you see by their post war newspaper advertisement they made a range of knives.

Image

Most of the pocket knives sold in Australia are imported. Unfortunately, due to the unreasonable interpretation of what is a Flick Knife in Australia, Australian Customs no longer permit the import of any One Handed Opening knives.

All of the Clasp Knives supplied to the Australian Military and all of the Multi Tools are imported. Sadly, most now come from China. One poor example is the Schrade (Not so tough) multitool ::barf:: which is a piece of crap. Most get thrown away and replaced with a Leatherman!! ::tu::

There are some very good Custom Knife makers in Australia who from time to time make small batches of high quality folding knives. These are highly sought after by collectors and users alike and sell very quickly. Some of these makers are members of the ABF site and show their creations there.

Regards

Dutchy
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
Plato (427-347 BC)

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap."
Napoleon Bonaparte


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