Need help with identification - S.C. U.S.A. TL-11 Camillus

[Dull]

Perhaps someone can give me some help in identifying and dating this knife
It has two blades. 3 5/8 long, closed. It has brass liners. Handles are wood.
The shield is marked: S.C. U.S.A.
TL-11.
I presume that this stands for Signal Corps, United States Army and TL-11 for Tool for Linemen.
The main blade is marked with crossed swords (tips downward) and the word “Sword” above the swords. "Brand" below the swords.
The small blade is marked:
CAMILLUS
CUTLERY CO.
CAMILLUS, NY
U.S.A.

On page 43 of Silvey’s Pocket Knives of the United States Military is a very similar knife by Miller Bros. Silvey’s knife measures 1/8 inch longer and the shield does not specify TL-11.

I’d appreciate any help anyone can give me.

[Miller Bro's]

I have not seen many of these Camillus E.O. knives with that shield.

I would date it to just after WWI to the end of WWII.

Nice old knife, thanks for showing it

[jerryd6818]

It has a tang stamp that was used during WWII (and before) BUT it has brass pins and liners. As we've learned, knives for WWII most all had steel pins and liners, reserving brass for the war effort (read that ammunition). This is my first TL-11 and if Miller Bro's has not seen many of them, I would think that means there wasn't a boatload made. Those two things alone lead me to believe the knife is pre-war. There is a fly in the ointment of that theory though.

The Kastor list says -- Sword Brand (w/crossed swords logo) -- Camillus Cutlery Co. Camillus N.Y. U.S.A. (on small blade) -- USA -- 1941-1946

What do you think Dimitri? Very early WWII as first choice, with 1917 (or so) to 1940 (or so) as second choice?

The Signal Corps has been around since 1863 so that's not really any help.

[tjmurphy]

First one I've seen

[Dull]

Thanks, everyone.
I got confused (easy to do) with the use of the brass and the seemingly contradictory evidence of the tang stamps. That's why I'm bringing my ignorance to you guys
When I dived into the books I thought it might be cobbled together from stray parts 70 years ago. Then, there was the awful feeling that it might be an out and out phony. But, it was about $50 so being a phony doesn't seem likely.
I'm very new to knives so my views aren't worth much.
Thanks for your insights. Reading the forum is a great education.

[Miller Bro's]

What do you think Dimitri? Very early WWII as first choice, with 1917 (or so) to 1940 (or so) as second choice?

I would go with the second choice

I have not seen any other knife from this era marked TL-11 this one is a first for me. I don`t think there are very many of these around.

I would contact Mike Silvey and ask him about this knife.

[Dull]

How would I contact Mike Silvey?

Perhaps he would not want his contact info spread abroad. If so, might someone who is acquainted with him direct him to this thread and post his response? I, being a stranger, wouldn't want to impose on Mike Silvey as he probably hears from more people than he cares to.

[Miller Bro's]

He would have no problem with you contacting him.

Here is his web address and contact info.

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/silvey.htm

[Dull]

Done.
Will post any response.
Thanks!

[Dull]

Just received a reply from Mike Silvey.

"I like the TL-11, it's a neat little knife and I believe it dates to the same time frame as the Miller Bros and Camillus easy openers. It's got a great shield. I've been keeping up my pocket knife book and have added some 40 or so new knives to it over the years and I did come across the TL-11. Don't really have any information on it and couldn't find anything in the Signal Corp documents that I have. Anyway, here's a pdf of that page with the knife. Regards, Mike"

I tried to load the pdf image that Mike sent but the Forum wouldn't accept a pdf. Not being a computer guy I have no idea if there is a way to get the image posted. Besides a photo of a duplicate of my knife the page carries the text:

"This early Signal Corps knife is by Camillus and has their Sword Brand mark on the
main blade while the small pen blade has the Camillus four line mark."

I want to thank you guys for your help and am also very grateful to Mike Silvey for taking time/effort to help me with my identification.
Merry Christmas to you all.....and, may Santa Claus leave sharp stuff in your stockings.

[Miller Bro's]

Thanks for posting the new information!

Send me the PDF and I will post the picture in this thread

[Miller Bro's]

Here are the pictures from Mike Silvey.

Give the image a couple of clicks to expand it full size.

[coffeecup]

I've run across a few of these.

The earliest date I can find the pattern with a military association is about 1930, but there were no legible markings on the shield. Tang was stamped "Sword Brand" and "Amhurst" (I think--note says it wasn't very legible.)

Then I've got nothing until WWII. One was among the effects of a man killed at Pearl Harbor; it was in a framed display so I wasn't able to open it to read the tang stamps. One was owned by a nurse who served in Britain, but she wasn't sure where or when she got it, only that she brought it home with her (tang stamp was Miller Bros). One was carried by a Signal Corps photographer in WWII (also "Sword Brand" "Amhurst").

The only one I can put a date to was issued to another Signal Corp photographer in late July/early August 1950. He said he lost his pocket knife, went to get another, and that was what they gave him. Tang stamp was like Jerry's.

My impression of the knife was always that it was a pocket knife (vs. the TL-29, which was seemingly originally intended to be part of a tool "kit"). As others have noted, it doesn't seem to have been widely issued; at a guess it was largely superseded by the WWII-issue E-O.