Starting to collect

A place to discuss military related knives and tools. Conversation relating to objects of war and peace from all eras welcome.
asigarza
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Starting to collect

Post by asigarza » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:06 pm

Hello everybody.I'm starting to collect marlin spike and rope knives. Can someone recommend me bibliography about it?
Thanks in advance..

Mossdancer
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Mossdancer » Wed May 09, 2018 6:25 am

Sir or Madam or it whatever the feeling might be:
You have no inkling of an idea of how lucky you are. Starting any thing in this brave new information world. It is all there right in front of you, all you have to do is ask the internet. I have came to believe that all the info in this World is right there. All you need to do is ask google or your favorite search engine what you want to know. For instance in plain speak write Rope knife history or marlin spike History. You will have more info about your subject in one minute than could be found in two months or much more using manual research even 30 years ago much less 60 or more. Give it a try.
moss

PS: Should anyone object to this post feel free to erase it.
I STAND FOR OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM

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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Mumbleypeg » Wed May 09, 2018 3:03 pm

Welcome to AAPK. Someone here may know of a good resource for Marlin spikes or rope knives, but I know of nothing like that myself. It would make a good focus for collecting though, and you may have to be in charge of your own research. Maybe you can write such a book! ::tu::

Ken
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cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Sun May 13, 2018 1:54 pm

Which marlin spike knives do you want to collect? Military or civilian? U.S. or British or European? All of the above?

I collect British and Commonwealth military knives. The British issued a knife with a marlin spike from the late 1800s until at least the 1990s and may still be issuing one. The three readily available models are:

the Boer War version, with a single blade, marlin spike and smooth horn scales, often found with the service member's number impressed in the scales:

the Pattern 6353/1905, blade, tin opener and marlin spike and checkered horn scales. These were issued 1905 to 1938/39. Some variations to scales can be found.

WWII version, smaller that the first two, blade, different style tin opener, marlin spike and checkered Bexoid (synthetic) scales. In use 1939-1952ish

1952 and later, stainless steel with blade, tin opener, marlin spike and metal scales (or no scales).

All of these, while frequently listed on auction sites as Navy knives weren't. They were issued to the Army. When you remember that well past WWII a lot of loads were secured with hemp rope. If you ever tried to untie a knot in a natural fiber rope that has been wet, dirty and under strain you quickly learn what a wonderful tool a marlin spike is.

Also in the British arena is the Admiralty Pattern 301. this has a blade and a marlin spike that is fitted next to and hinged at the same end as the blade. These have stag scales. In service from early 1900s through 1940.

Seaman's knife, blade and marlin spike, checkered alloy scales. In use 1940-1986

These last two were Navy issue.

With the WWII version above there were about 40 manufacturers. One of each would be a collection that would kepp you off the streets and out of the pool halls for quite a while.'

The only American knives I'm familiar with are ones made to the 6353/1905 specifications. Camillus and Schatt & Morgan made them under contract for Canada in 1915. E.C. Simmons under their Keen Kutter label made one as well but I can't find a military connection.

Best of luck with your new hobby.

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jerryd6818
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by jerryd6818 » Sun May 13, 2018 2:17 pm

cottage hill bill wrote:Which marlin spike knives do you want to collect? Military or civilian? U.S. or British or European? All of the above?
Thank you very much for that information. I copied it and saved it with my British Army Knives (all both of them :lol: ).
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zzyzzogeton
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by zzyzzogeton » Sun May 13, 2018 6:34 pm

One quick way to decide whether a rope/spike knife was Army or Navy (US or British) =

Does it have a tin/can opener?

Yes = Army No = Navy

The Navy has mess decks and no reason to open cans. The ship's cooks have commercial grade can openers.

The Army had cans in their field rations - gotta get into that Spam somehow.

cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Mon May 14, 2018 11:31 am

On British knives that method of classification doesn't work. The Boer War era knives had no tin opener but were strictly army issue. In WWI the 6353/1905 specification was changed to allow knives with blade and tin opener only. Most of these have bone scales and are sometimes referred to as Gift Knives because of a mistaken belief they were included in the 1914 Princess Mary gift tin which was distributed to soldiers. In WWII clasp knives with only blade and tin opener were issued and were strictly an army item. The Navy used the alloy scaled Seaman's knife which was slightly larger than the army version. The Navy knife was blade and spike only.

I'm having some minor surgery tomorrow so I'll be out of touch for a couple days but then I'll try to post some pictures.

doglegg
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by doglegg » Mon May 14, 2018 2:16 pm

cottage hill bill wrote:On British knives that method of classification doesn't work. The Boer War era knives had no tin opener but were strictly army issue. In WWI the 6353/1905 specification was changed to allow knives with blade and tin opener only. Most of these have bone scales and are sometimes referred to as Gift Knives because of a mistaken belief they were included in the 1914 Princess Mary gift tin which was distributed to soldiers. In WWII clasp knives with only blade and tin opener were issued and were strictly an army item. The Navy used the alloy scaled Seaman's knife which was slightly larger than the army version. The Navy knife was blade and spike only.

I'm having some minor surgery tomorrow so I'll be out of touch for a couple days but then I'll try to post some pictures.
Hope your surgery goes well and you bounce back quick.

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zzyzzogeton
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by zzyzzogeton » Mon May 14, 2018 3:41 pm

cottage hill bill wrote:On British knives that method of classification doesn't work. The Boer War era knives had no tin opener but were strictly army issue. In WWI the 6353/1905 specification was changed to allow knives with blade and tin opener only. Most of these have bone scales and are sometimes referred to as Gift Knives because of a mistaken belief they were included in the 1914 Princess Mary gift tin which was distributed to soldiers. In WWII clasp knives with only blade and tin opener were issued and were strictly an army item. The Navy used the alloy scaled Seaman's knife which was slightly larger than the army version. The Navy knife was blade and spike only.

I'm having some minor surgery tomorrow so I'll be out of touch for a couple days but then I'll try to post some pictures.

Good luck with the surgery and a speedy recovery.

Now you have spiked a perfectly good rule of thumb with something as unimportant as FACTS. How dare you disturb my happily ignorant knowledge? ::mdm::

cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Mon May 14, 2018 10:23 pm

Glad The theory may well work with U.S. knives, I have little knowledge of them and most I've seen with a spike seem to be of a nautical bent.

Thanks for the good wishes.

Good hunting all.

cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Tue May 15, 2018 12:01 am

Ok, had a little time to take a picture. Here are representative knives from the Boer War through the end of WWII.
overhead 2.jpg
From top to bottom, left to right
1. For scale my EDC for the last 45 years a Victorinox tinker
2. L - Boer War - impressed with serviceman's number and organization (RGA - Royal Garrison Artillery) R- 6353/1905
Many of the Boer War knives have a sheep's foot blade. The 6353/1905 have a spear point.
3. 6353/1905 open
4. L - 6353/1905 by Camillus for Canadian contract. R - 6353/1905 by Schatt & Morgan for Canadian contract.
5. 6353/1905 variant unique to Canada. Stamped on the scale M & D Canada 1916. (also seen dated 1914 and 1915)
6. L - 8173/1914 bone handle R - 8172/1914 checkered horn handle (not shown 8171/1914 stag handle) These were variations to get more knives to the troops. These are often mistakenly called Gift Knives because it was once thought they were issued in the Princess Mary Gift Tin (check Google)
In 1917 there were several more variations of the 6353/1905 pattern mostly allowing different materials for the scales, nickel and pressed fibre or allowing the bail to be made from steel rather than copper.
7. Canadian post-WWII marked on ricasso MS XX - these were made by case around 1948
8.WWII standard issue clasp knife with Bexoid scales. Notice the return to a sheep's foot blade and the change to the tin opener. Late war models had a bottle opener hook on the bottom of the tin opener blade near the joint.
9. L - standard issue without marlin spike. R - Late war all stainless steel knife. This one is dated 1945.
10. War Department marked (W/|\D) rope knife from sometime in the last half of the 1800's
11. L - Admiralty Pattern 301 R - WWII Seaman's knife.
The string around the top is an issue knife lanyard. White cotton, The small loop goes around the bail of the knife. The large loop around the arm at the shoulder with the knife carried in the left breast pocket of the tunic.

Later in the week I'll try to get some better pictures of the individual knives.

asigarza - Be aware, if you start down this path here's what awaits you! Don't say we didn't warn you.
wwii drawer.jpg
WWI drawer.jpg

asigarza
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by asigarza » Tue May 15, 2018 2:27 pm

Mossdancer wrote:Sir or Madam or it whatever the feeling might be:
You have no inkling of an idea of how lucky you are. Starting any thing in this brave new information world. It is all there right in front of you, all you have to do is ask the internet. I have came to believe that all the info in this World is right there. All you need to do is ask google or your favorite search engine what you want to know. For instance in plain speak write Rope knife history or marlin spike History. You will have more info about your subject in one minute than could be found in two months or much more using manual research even 30 years ago much less 60 or more. Give it a try.
moss

PS: Should anyone object to this post feel free to erase it.

Thanks Mossdancer...I'm male..
IMG_20180422_155419.jpg
I've some knive and want order it...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=11iGLE ... TzIwhiXSEP

asigarza
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by asigarza » Tue May 15, 2018 2:29 pm

Hi everybody, thanks for your answers and tips. Actually I've around 50 rope knives and want order they. Nothings better than a book to ask...

this are my knives

https://drive.google.com/open?id=11iGLE ... TzIwhiXSEP

cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Tue May 15, 2018 9:35 pm

Nice collection. The first one, the ABL is a Belgian copy of the British WWII knife. Right after WWII Belgium used a lot of British equipment until they could make their own which was modeled on the British gear. This knife is a direct copy, very well made.

The next one is a bit of a mystery to me. It appears to be dated 1926? It looks like the Brit WWII but the date is too early. The earliest British army knife of the WWII pattern I've seen is 1939.
The Jos. Allen with the wood scales must be a commercial version.
The next, big sheep's foot with wood scales - does that say Argentina? Nice.
The ATKC is in great condition. Atkinson is a maker I haven't seen before. Are there any other markings on it?
CAM53C looks like a Canadian contract Camillus 6353/1905. On the spike it may be stamped with a C surrounding a broadarrow /|\. That is the Canadian government property mark. Should also have a three or four line stamp on the ricasso including 1915. One of my favorite knives.
The Ibberson is a WWII British army knife. The /|\ above the fiddle in the markings is the British government property mark.
I see you've got an M&D Canada. These were made by Thomas Turner cultler in England under contract for Canada in WWI.
The NAPOL and VISCO I believe are Italian military issue. The giveaway is the fine checkering on the scales.
The NONXLL (none excel) and the Rogers are WWII Seaman's knives. Does the Rogers have a smooth place on one scale? It was a place to stamp a service man's number
XXXX is a typical WWII British army knife. There should be a maker's name and maybe a date on the ricasso on one of the blades.

I can't comment on the commercial knives as they are outside my area of experience. You've got some nice ones though and a great start on a collection.

Best of luck and Good Hunting.

Miller Bro's
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Miller Bro's » Tue May 15, 2018 10:03 pm

Welcome aboard Bill, great information ::tu::

Are you in England?
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