Nazi Pocket Knife?

[dto1982]

Hey Guys,

Picked.this up as part.of a.much larger lot. Any body seen these before? Cant find much of anything about them so any info would be appreciated. The other side.features a very small swastika.

[zzyzzogeton]

I don't collect WW2 German military items beyond bayonets but one thing I was told a long time ago was that almost ALL legitimate RZM stamps used a European "Z", i.e., the "Z" has a cross bar to differentiate the "Z" from a "2".

Based on that, I always assume that any item with an uncrossed "Z" in the RZM is a post-WW2 souvenir wanna-be or outright fake.

[XX Case XX]

The only thing I know about that knife is based on the inscriptions. "Daimler" is a multinational automotive corporation which includes Chrysler, MBZ, and interestingly enough, "Airbus".

It's possible that knife was made for employees of those companies.

__________
Mike

[deo-pa]

I'd say that's a nice find and not one of the many fake Nazi-era knives that are floating around. It looks like your exact knife sold at auction in England last year. See this link: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 6100f06255. The ding in the knife above the "R" in DAIMLER is exactly the same as yours so I'm sure it is the same knife. You can contact the auction company to see what it sold for.

It's listed as "GERMAN AIRMAN'S PEN KNIFE, WWII Daimler-Benz German airman's pocket knife stamped F. Schichau Elbing R2M with eagle and swastika to rear, 9cm." Though to me it looks more like an advertising knife for the factory in Elbing rather than something intended for airmen to carry.

Elbing is the German name for a city (now part of Poland) that was controlled by Germany until the end of WW2. See the Wikipedia entry for Elblag, Poland.

Are the blade tangs stamped? Do the blades snap? Condition is everything so if you want to sell it here or eBay or wherever good photos and detailed description is essential.

Dennis

[edge213]

They sure look like the same knife.

[zzyzzogeton]

Hitler began Germany's secret rearmament program after he came into power in January 1933. To keep potential enemies/enforcers of the 1918 Armistice Agreement, Hitler's government introduced RZM codes for items produced for the military.

From 1934 to 1939, some items included city or manufacturer identification stamps in addition to its RZM code.

From about late 1939 or early 1940 through the end of the war, items did NOT have a city name or a manufacturer's name on the item, but had just an RZM code instead. There are very few exceptions to this. If a quartermaster carried something in any of the NAZI military branches, it came with an RZM code. Most but not all RZM codes have been identified. Since the end of WW2 militaria scholars and collectors have worked to identify them but some codes still resist identification.

These "German Ordnance Codes", 3 or 4 digit codes from 1934 to 1941, 3 letter codes from 1941 to 1945, along with a year code. Some also had a group code. As an example, a dagger with 941/39 on it would indicate that it was made by Carl Eickhorn in 1939.

The letters RZM are NOT an ordnance code themselves. It stands for the Nazi Party Department of Ordnance or Reichszeugmeisterei (RZM). Zeugmeisterei means Quartermaster in German.

Is there a 3 or 4 digit/ 3 character code any where on the knife? There should also be a 2 digit year code for an RZM item near the RZM code. 38 = 1938, etc

If the knife does not have a RZM code, that means it was NOT made for the German military during the NAZI era (1933 to 1945).

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

F. Schichau made U-boats & locomotives, and apparently they also used forced labor from the concentration camps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schichau-Werke

[OLDE CUTLER]

The only thing I know about that knife is based on the inscriptions. "Daimler" is a multinational automotive corporation which includes Chrysler, MBZ, and interestingly enough, "Airbus".

It's possible that knife was made for employees of those companies.

__________
Mike

Actually Chrysler is no longer part of Daimler since Fiat bought them.

[dto1982]

I'd say that's a nice find and not one of the many fake Nazi-era knives that are floating around. It looks like your exact knife sold at auction in England last year. See this link: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 6100f06255. The ding in the knife above the "R" in DAIMLER is exactly the same as yours so I'm sure it is the same knife. You can contact the auction company to see what it sold for.

It's listed as "GERMAN AIRMAN'S PEN KNIFE, WWII Daimler-Benz German airman's pocket knife stamped F. Schichau Elbing R2M with eagle and swastika to rear, 9cm." Though to me it looks more like an advertising knife for the factory in Elbing rather than something intended for airmen to carry.

Elbing is the German name for a city (now part of Poland) that was controlled by Germany until the end of WW2. See the Wikipedia entry for Elblag, Poland.

Are the blade tangs stamped? Do the blades snap? Condition is everything so if you want to sell it here or eBay or wherever good photos and detailed description is essential.

Dennis

Here are some more photos. Both blades snap. Cant find any numbers on the knife. No tang stamps either.

[deo-pa]

So what is the consensus on this knife? I'm beginning to think my comment that this knife is

...not one of the many fake Nazi-era knives that are floating around

is wrong. As it has no stamps and no numbers, I think I was fooled and it is in fact a fake.

This 10+ year old forum post makes a good case for most every Nazi pocket knife being suspect: viewtopic.php?t=38248. Any other opinions as to whether or not it is legit?

Dennis