British and Commonwealth Military Knives

A place to discuss & share pictures of military related knives and tools. Conversation relating to objects of war and peace from all eras welcome.
Saltydog83
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Saltydog83 »

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First post in this great forum, so thanks to all for the content and contributions. I've had this knife laying around for some time and wondered about it's origins. Based on this thread, I'm guessing it is a pre-1905 Boer War Army version, but I'd like to hear if my assertions are correct. I can make out the "Sheffield" pretty clearly, but not the words above it and there's an unfamiliar symbol next to both. The opposite side has what appears to be the remnants of a "W" then "/I\ D 5. There are no other markings, service numbers, etc. anywhere on the knife.

Again, great message board and thanks in advance for any help!
cottage hill bill
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by cottage hill bill »

You are correct, it is an Anglo-Boer war era knife. More info on these here https://cask.info/ Yours looks as though the blade may have been slightly reshaped at the tip, although without having it in hand it's hard to tell. Most have a more rounded upper corner to the top end of the blade. I've not seen that maker before so it may be how it was made. The W/|\D 5 is the War Department acceptance stamp. Stamps were numbered to the individual doing the inspection. And no, as far as I know there's no record of who had what number. Nice knife, be worth a bit of gentle cleaning. Also a fair bit of info here https://www.facebook.com/groups/1802219413312074
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Miller Bro's
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Miller Bro's »

Good looking knife!

Welcome aboard ::handshake::
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Saltydog83
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Saltydog83 »

Thanks for the response and the additional resources Bill. I think you're right about the tip being reshaped at some point in it's life. When closed, about 2mm of the edge remains exposed at the very tip which would make sense if it had taken some damage and needed reshaping. Looking at the grind, it does appear to narrow slightly towards the tip as well. Great observation. Since everything is nice and tight, I'm planning on making it a daily carry knife. I'll make a nice belt pouch and perhaps a fancywork lanyard too. It may be Army, but I'm all Navy! I have to admit to being a bit disappointed to learn it was an Army knife, but also found the back-story on the use of the Marlin Spike by soldiers to be very enlightening. Thanks again for the info!
Saltydog83
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Saltydog83 »

Miller Bro's wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:38 am Good looking knife!

Welcome aboard ::handshake::
Thanks! Unfortunately there is a crack in the horn on the other side. It doesn't affect the usability and everything is nice and tight, but it does bother my eyes...
cottage hill bill
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by cottage hill bill »

If you think about it, up through WWII most cargo was secured with rope. Trying to untie a rope that has been wet, muddy and repeatedly strained by jolting along in a wagon or truck, a marlin spike is a handy thing to have.
nif6969
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by nif6969 »

Hello.Your knife is a british army black horn 4563a/1902 pattern knife and as pointed out the blade has been reshaped.ps not a common knife as they were only issued for a few years.
Brigantian
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Brigantian »

Hi, hoping someone out there can help with this one, its standard 1905 British Army pattern BUT with one piece alloy scales/bolsters. Made by H.G. Long of Sheffield but no other marks.
Could it be a civilian copy or possibly a military prototype?
Any help would be very welcome!
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Nephilim
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Nephilim »

Couldn't find anything specific in Flook's book. Many of the WW1 production ones have substitute materials for the handles, like pressed fiber. I would assume that's what this is, except for the lack of broad arrow mark.
Here's an article on the manufacturer: https://www.hawleysheffieldknives.com/n ... O&kel=1006
It says they took naval contracts in WW1, but yours isn't a naval pattern knife, as you noticed.
Warwick
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Warwick »

Now I could be wrong but I always used the marlin spike for helping to undo knots,which it is very useful. I read a book once where the author referred to these knives and how useful the spike was for thrusting into sentries necks; but I suggest a bit of artistic licence there!!
cottage hill bill
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by cottage hill bill »

When you remember that during the time these knives were issued most cargo was secured to wagons and trucks with hemp rope, issuing a knife with a marline spike makes a great deal of sense. If you've ever tried to undo a knot in a wet, muddy rope that has been strained by the shifting weight of the load it's holding down you'll know how useful the spike is. I always have a 6353/1905 along on camping trips because even modern synthetic ropes can benefit from having a spike handy.
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Ridgegrass
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Ridgegrass »

My 2 cents worth. In addition to the untying capabilities, the spike is also used to "whip" rope, that is to use a thin cord called "marlin" to wrap the loose ends of rope to keep them from fraying. Anytime a rope was cut the dead ends had to be whipped. The marlin was tightened by wrapping it a few times around the spike and rope and pulling the wraps tight against the rope before knotting. Modern lines of dacron and nylon can be fused by heating, so the process is not used so much anymore. Sometimes you'll see a naval or maritime sheath knife with a accessory spike in a separate sheath pocket. J.O'.
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Quick Steel
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Quick Steel »

I apologize for the poor quality of these photos. Nonetheless, many of you will recognize the classic Kukri, a version of which is worn by every Nepalese who has joined the Gurkha regiment of the British army. This formidable weapon developed from the common farming implement used throughout Nepal.

This particular Kukri commemorates the Indian mutiny against the British in 1857. Indian troops revolted quickly followed by tens of thousands of other Indians. This gravely threatened English rule of India. The Gurkhas remained loyal and played a significant role in overcoming the mutiny.

Of the two small blades which traditionally come with the Kukri, the first provides a small blade as appropriate, while the second is used to hone and sharpen the Kukri. The overall length is 17". The blade is 12 inches; the handle is 5".

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doglegg
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by doglegg »

Thanks for the history, explanation and photos of a wonderful knife. I always enjoy hearing about the Gurkas. Amazing knife used by amazing fighters.
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Quick Steel
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Quick Steel »

For anyone who may be new to the subject of Gurkhas I highly recommend a visit to YouTube. Videos cover the recruitment and training of these remarkable young men plus the enormous emotional investment of the families.

[During the Falkland war, whole units of Argentinian troops immediately threw down their rifles and surrendered upon learning that the soldiers attacking them were the feared Gurkhas. Legend has it that the Kukri cannot be returned to its sheath until the blade has tasted blood.] ::woot::
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JonTerry
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by JonTerry »

Toaylor Eye Witness D Day Knife
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cottage hill bill
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by cottage hill bill »

John, Your knife is typical of several commercial offerings made during and after WWII. I have a very similar knife by Nowill. Not sure where you picked up the "D-Day" part of the description. That was something typically added by companies marketing knives and guns here in the US in the 60s and 70s. The most egregious one I remember is the spike from an Enfield No.4 bayonet added to a round, knurled handle and marketed as a "D-Day Commando Knife". It was pure fantasy. Terms like d-day and h-hour were simply terms that were used in military planning to refer to times of an operation when the actual times either weren't known or couldn't be used for security reason. So planners would write things like "At d-day - 1 troops will embark, at d-day + 1 the following units will be landed. Artillery barrage will begin at h-hour - 3, h-hour + 3 staff will break for tea" etc. Referring to June 6 1944 as D-Day didn't come about until after the invasion. It certainly wouldn't have been used in any advertising or naming of products during the war.

There was a large market for "private purchase" items and weapons during the war. The issuing of FS knives certainly helped boost the commercial sales of fighting knives. Most like yours and my Nowill use components like the pommel and grips from their hunting knife lines. The pommel on my Nowill is slightly asymmetrical showing it was made for a bowie style hunting knife. I haven't studied these enough to be able to tell war-time from post war production, if it is even possible to tell. The FS knives were available to troops for purchase and these were probably a lower priced option for those who felt the need to carry one. They're a great addition to a British/Commonwealth collection and yours looks like a good sample.
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JonTerry
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by JonTerry »

cottage hill bill wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:00 pm John, Your knife is typical of several commercial offerings made during and after WWII. I have a very similar knife by Nowill. Not sure where you picked up the "D-Day" part of the description. That was something typically added by companies marketing knives and guns here in the US in the 60s and 70s. The most egregious one I remember is the spike from an Enfield No.4 bayonet added to a round, knurled handle and marketed as a "D-Day Commando Knife". It was pure fantasy. Terms like d-day and h-hour were simply terms that were used in military planning to refer to times of an operation when the actual times either weren't known or couldn't be used for security reason. So planners would write things like "At d-day - 1 troops will embark, at d-day + 1 the following units will be landed. Artillery barrage will begin at h-hour - 3, h-hour + 3 staff will break for tea" etc. Referring to June 6 1944 as D-Day didn't come about until after the invasion. It certainly wouldn't have been used in any advertising or naming of products during the war.

There was a large market for "private purchase" items and weapons during the war. The issuing of FS knives certainly helped boost the commercial sales of fighting knives. Most like yours and my Nowill use components like the pommel and grips from their hunting knife lines. The pommel on my Nowill is slightly asymmetrical showing it was made for a bowie style hunting knife. I haven't studied these enough to be able to tell war-time from post war production, if it is even possible to tell. The FS knives were available to troops for purchase and these were probably a lower priced option for those who felt the need to carry one. They're a great addition to a British/Commonwealth collection and yours looks like a good sample.
Hi Bill,

It's a name that I have learnt since buying this knife, and you are correct, it is only really a collectors term for these due to the private puchases made by troops during WW2.
JT
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Ghaeeta
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Ghaeeta »

Hello everyone, new member here. I came across this knife which I believe is a Boer war period one. It had it's marlin spike ground off. What's interesting is that I came across an account by someone else, though with no pictures, that seems to describe a similar situation. It's a comment on a blog post about a Boer war knife; I don't know if I'm allowed to link to other sites so I will quote the comment:

"I have one marked W-D 3 by A Ibbitts Sheffield with black horn scales, Aruthur Ibbitts address in 1905, was 27 Carver Street, part of Howells Alpha House? It is in v.g condition, EXSEPT the hoof pick has be well ground off and reshaped to a good standard. Why.? Obsolete, broken or for less weight, or civilianised by Ibbitts, as they were made obsolete in 1903. The blade has the usual attempt at a spear point, it is interesting to measure the loss of the blade if any by comparing it with a Stanley blade up front! cutlers stick to what they know lt appears."

Any information would be greatly appreciated, cheers, G.
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matarius777
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by matarius777 »

Hi, I’ve had my eye on this for a week or so. I know it’s not WW1 but it looks in decent condition although I’ve not actually handles it, they’re only open a couple of days a week. Does the price seem decent (£33), I thought it was, certainly compared to the offerings off Etsy? (I’m hoping everyone can see the image- not posted for ages and it seemed a tad too easy! :lol: )
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JonTerry
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by JonTerry »

I'd say £33 is a great price tbh, go for it mate ::tu::
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cottage hill bill
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by cottage hill bill »

WWII definitely not WWI. From the looks of the scales is is Indian production, not British.
Rob Howsam
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Rob Howsam »

Can anyone tell me when the first all Stainless Steel Clasp Knife or ‘Burma Knife’ was issued to the British Army, was it 1944?

Also, in WW1 was it just the Canadians who had the all steel clasp knives?

Thank you all,

Rob
Rob Howsam
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by Rob Howsam »

The spike is called a ‘Marlin Spike’ and contrary to what your Grandad may tell you, it’s not for “getting stones out of ‘osses ‘ooves” it’s for rope work. Untangling big knots quick.
cottage hill bill
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Re: British and Commonwealth Military Knives

Post by cottage hill bill »

Rob,
Yes it is a marlin spike, however, the 6353/1905 knife was first issued to mounted troops and there are written instructions that the point of the spike is to be dulled and the spike used as a hoof pick. This replaced the folding hoof pick that was issued until 1905. See this post https://www.facebook.com/groups/1802219 ... oof%20pick for more information and pictures.
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