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Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:25 am
by Greenman
Tsar Bomba wrote:How do you screw up the pull on a single-blade jack? This is a disappointing development considering I have 2 en route.
Pull strength is partially the result how much material is removed from a knife's backspring(s) during the hafting process. If the hafter exerts too much pressure on the knife or holds it against the wheel for a few seconds too long, the knife is going to have a weak backspring. Conversely, if you have the intestinal fortitude to attempt it, an overly strong backspring can be “weakened” by re-grinding the spine of the knife. Hence the differences in pull strength that sometimes occur amongst knives of the same pattern from the same batch can oftentimes be explained by the hand-hafting process used by traditional knife manufacturers such as GEC.

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:38 pm
by JohnR
My ebony arrived today and man what a gorgeous knife, fit and finish is top notch.

As far as pull and snap it is just like the other I received, it is on the light side but does snap firmly into place, I did clean a lot of gunk out of the first one I received and snap improved quite a bit. I've got a couple of vintage original and they feel the same way so a light pull may be inherent to the pattern.

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:12 pm
by ken98k
I was going to call gec today but, due to the time differences, I wasn't able to. I still feel that a knife of this type and size should have solid and positive "snap" particularly when the blade is open.

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:53 pm
by HighPlains
ken98k wrote:I was going to call gec today but, due to the time differences, I wasn't able to. I still feel that a knife of this type and size should have solid and positive "snap" particularly when the blade is open.
I would be very curious to know what they say. I’m disappointed with the weak springs as well. On both my Autumn Gold and my American Whittler. They are otherwise great. But Case also has reasonably well polished knives with weak springs and it just doesn’t excite me. To me a strong spring adds character.

It’s especially disappointing on the Northfield blade where the added leverage of the nail nick is so unnecessary that it almost makes a mockery of the spring.

I know that the story is that GEC caught flack from some for the nail breakers on the early year 23’s but my 2012 23 is stronger than my 2007. I consider both reasonable and enjoyable. Different strokes though.

If nothing else I’ve enjoyed a lively conversation on an otherwise slow forum. All the best everyone!

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:42 pm
by ken98k
HighPlains wrote:
ken98k wrote:I was going to call gec today but, due to the time differences, I wasn't able to. I still feel that a knife of this type and size should have solid and positive "snap" particularly when the blade is open.
I would be very curious to know what they say. I’m disappointed with the weak springs as well. On both my Autumn Gold and my American Whittler. They are otherwise great. But Case also has reasonably well polished knives with weak springs and it just doesn’t excite me. To me a strong spring adds character.

It’s especially disappointing on the Northfield blade where the added leverage of the nail nick is so unnecessary that it almost makes a mockery of the spring.

I know that the story is that GEC caught flack from some for the nail breakers on the early year 23’s but my 2012 23 is stronger than my 2007. I consider both reasonable and enjoyable. Different strokes though.

If nothing else I’ve enjoyed a lively conversation on an otherwise slow forum. All the best everyone!
Just got off the phone with GEC. They said, "they were intentionally made with a very light pull due to previous complaints from collectors."
So I guess if you're looking for a "USER", buy a Case or a Rough Rider, as Great Eastern no longer produces knives for actual use, only display models for collectors.

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:48 pm
by HighPlains
ken98k wrote: Just got off the phone with GEC. They said, "they were intentionally made with a very light pull due to previous complaints from collectors."
I do think there is a happy middle ground. For example, I would say the pulls on all of my 43s was too light and the actions to spongy. But the pulls on my 44s, a later model, were inspiring but not overly tight and the actions are admirably positive and snappy.

It’s too bad to see what seems like backsliding after they nailed on the 44s.

GEC is very dynamic though and I’m still committed to the journey.

I would be curious to hear from lots of different users about what they think an ideal pull would be. Like a personal opinion as well as what would be best for all users.

As I’ve said, personally I prefer 23 and 73 type actions. But I think 44 type actions could reasonably make all parties happy. Thoughts??

Also, Ken, thanks for taking the trouble to make the phone call. What was the conversation like? We’re they receptive to feedback?

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:13 pm
by Tsar Bomba
Got my 97s. Checked out the cherrywood Tidioute last night. Toted the ebony NF today.

The snap is fine on both.

Carry on. :mrgreen:

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:18 pm
by ken98k
HighPlains wrote:
ken98k wrote: Just got off the phone with GEC. They said, "they were intentionally made with a very light pull due to previous complaints from collectors."
I do think there is a happy middle ground. For example, I would say the pulls on all of my 43s was too light and the actions to spongy. But the pulls on my 44s, a later model, were inspiring but not overly tight and the actions are admirably positive and snappy.

It’s too bad to see what seems like backsliding after they nailed on the 44s.

GEC is very dynamic though and I’m still committed to the journey.

I would be curious to hear from lots of different users about what they think an ideal pull would be. Like a personal opinion as well as what would be best for all users.

As I’ve said, personally I prefer 23 and 73 type actions. But I think 44 type actions could reasonably make all parties happy. Thoughts??

Also, Ken, thanks for taking the trouble to make the phone call. What was the conversation like? We’re they receptive to feedback?
The first lady I spoke with was very pleasant and when I explained what I wanted she said "I don't know but I'll find out". ::tu::
The next person was ready to fight when she got on the phone, and it was obvious right away from her tone, there would be no compromise on her part.
After she explained why GEC knives now have soft pulls, I said "So I guess that means there's nothing that can be done about it, that's just the way it is?" she said YES.

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:30 pm
by kootenay joe
Quote Ken: " "So I guess that means there's nothing that can be done about it, that's just the way it is?" she said YES."
There are 2 ways to interpret this. Was the GEC person saying there is nothing that can be done to improve spring strength on existing #97 knives ?
Or, was she saying soft springs on this pattern will be the case even in future runs ?
I think she was giving the first meaning. But as knifers we already know this. The knife would have to be taken apart and have a stiffer spring inserted and likely need to be re-hafted (new handle pieces) to look decent. It would make more sense to do another run of knives than to take apart & re-build existing ones.
But what is more important is future knives in which something can be done to give stronger springs. The GEC person cannot predict the future. If enough people emailed or phoned GEC asking for stronger springs on future runs it likely would happen. My suggestion is to have 2 runs of springs, one being a bit wimpy and the other being on the stiff side. The knives with the stiffer springs could have the letter "S" added to serial # to denote which knives have the stiff springs. Perhaps not suitable for all patterns but it could be done for the larger knives.
kj

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:34 pm
by Sharpnshinyknives
I missed the stag knives that Traditionalpocketknives had today. Didn’t see the email until 3 hours after it came and they were all gone. Sure hope I get another chance on one. If anyone sees these going up somewhere, please post it here. Thanks.
SSk

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:37 pm
by gsmith7158
I don't know yet what the snap is like on the stag 97 but they sure did sell out quickly at Traditional Pocket Knives.

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:13 pm
by Onearmbladejunkie
I bought a GEC#97 Allegheny Sambar Stag knife today from "Traditional Pocket Knives". They received 20 and I got to cherry pick the knife that I really wanted.
s249847959340461643_p1097_i1_w160.jpg
s249847959340461643_p1097_i1_w160.jpg (22.13 KiB) Viewed 1385 times

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:55 pm
by kootenay joe
Great looking Stag 97 !
kj

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:34 pm
by gsmith7158
Just got to fondle this one today and maybe I'm just lucky but the snap to me is in line with other hunters that I have. Case , Empire, Wostenholm, they all feel the same to me. With the larger blade you just don't need the kind of snap that you get in a stockman or or smaller jack. I am well satisfied with this classic beauty. I just hope the stag that's on the way is as good. :D

Re: GEC # 97

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:09 am
by kootenay joe
Greg, i don't understand this: " With the larger blade you just don't need the kind of snap that you get in a stockman or or smaller jack."
I associate larger slipjoints with stronger springs and knives like Gent's pen knives with softer springs.
Would you mind explaining why a lesser snap on a larger knife is 'all you need' ?
thanks, note i am not disagreeing, just wanting to learn.
kj