Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

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garddogg56
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Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by garddogg56 »

I would like to know a little history about this era Boker in my research all I can come up with is it may be between 1920-1930 but I was told it is even older ::shrug:: Thanx
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by rangerbluedog »

That tang stamp was used on both knives made in Germany and in the USA.
Does the tang stamp read:
H. BOKER & CO'S
IMPROVED
CUTLERY
In three lines, exactly as above?

Used in Germany: 1869-1910
USA made: 1899-1920s

That is most likely a US made knife.
AAPK member, thegreedygulo, can tell you more. Hopefully he will see this thread.
Meanwhile, I'll dig in my old catalogs ...
That knife is in fantastic condition ::nod:: - - - 'cept for the broken blade
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by garddogg56 »

Rangerbluedog; Yes exactly, this is the smoooothest knife I have ever handled,great spear and half stop.The scales are flawless.There is a nic on the main blade I'm going to leave that alone,Where in the US did they make H.Bokers?
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by rangerbluedog »

In 1899, increasing demand, together with higher tariffs on imported cutlery caused H. Boker & Co. to begin manufacturing their own pocket knives in Newark, New Jersey at a factory named The Valley Forge Cutlery Company. Valley Forge Cutlery had been in business since 1891. Carl F. Boker had been running H. Boker and Company since 1891. When he bought the Valley Forge Cutlery Company, both brands of knives continued to be made there until the facility was closed.
Later on, John R. Boker, Sr., new president of H. Boker & Company, expressed concern that business had
not grown for many years, having been 'just allowed to be kept alive'. To instill new momentum he
built a manufacturing plant at Hilton, New Jersey. Later the town name was changed to Maplewood.
All US made knives were manufactured in the Maplewood facility until 1977.

Your knife was most likely made at the old Valley Forge Cutlery Company in Newark, NJ.
Try taking a look at any Valley Forge knives you can find. They should look vaguely like "family" to that one.
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jerryd6818
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by jerryd6818 »

So pre-1910 on this one? You see the stamp on the secondary blade reads H. BOKER & CO'S over CUTLERY over GERMANY. The tree is on the back of each blade. I remember seeing a chart someplace of the changes to the trees but I didn't grab it and stick it in the Tang Stamp folder on my PC because I didn't have any Bokers at the time.

I think the scales are stag. Agree, disagree????
Attachments
H Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery.JPG
H Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery Tang Stamp.JPG
H Boker & Co's Cutlery Germany Tang Stamp.JPG
H Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery Tree Stamp.JPG
H Boker & Co's Handle.JPG
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by rangerbluedog »

Based on the info in the Zalesky KNIFEWORLD article:

The "H.BOKER&CO'S/IMPROVED/CUTLERY" stamp was used in Germany circa 1869-1910
The "H.BOKER & CO's/CUTLERY/GERMANY" stamp was used 1891-1944

Assuming both are original to your knife, you're somewhere around 1891-1910!
These are the tree stamps you mentioned. I have a hard time matching these, but yours kinda sorta looks like the 1900 example - - - aaaaaahhhhhh, maybe more like the 1907 ::undecided::
G1.JPG
G1.JPG (16.91 KiB) Viewed 10153 times
G2.JPG
G2.JPG (17.21 KiB) Viewed 10153 times
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by FRJ »

Here's a nice old whitler.
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030.JPG
020.JPG
Joe
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by jerryd6818 »

Thanks Mike. That helps to nail it. Take a close look at the 1900, it's a match. The little spur on the right side of the trunk, just before the tree bifurcates, and the spread on the base of the trunk both match with the 1900 tree. Same with Joe's whittler. So both knives are from 1900-1906. It's a dirty shame my little pen knife isn't in better shape.

Edit: I've changed my mind. It now looks more like a 1907. ::facepalm::

Nice whittler Joe. Over a hundred years of pocket time has been kind to it.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by thegreedygulo »

Regarding the 2 blade knife at the top of the page: What is stamped on the tang of the broken blade?
A pocket knife is still an intimate personal possession of the individual who carries it and consequently deserves the best of materials, finish and workmanship in its production. (Quoted from Boker's 1928 cutlery catalog).
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by rangerbluedog »

jerryd6818 wrote:Edit: I've changed my mind. It now looks more like a 1907. ::facepalm::
You too Jerry??!!
Don't worry. If you can nail down an old pre-WW2 Boker to a 20 year span, you can consider it a success! ::super_happy::
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by jerryd6818 »

It's the trees. The limbs on the trees are different for different years but they don't exactly match the tang stamp. ::hmm:: ::shrug::
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
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This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
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thegreedygulo
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by thegreedygulo »

Trying to date these old H. Boker's using only the tree stamps will drive you nuts. I've looked at the trees under magnification and that really doesn't help much either. There are differences in the tree stamps over a progression of years.........but to me, it's just not as clear on the blade tang as it is in the pictures. That's why I pay particular attention to the placement of the tree (front or back of tang), whether or not ALL tangs have tree stamps and to the lettering itself on the tangs. There are also variations in the tree stamps from the same eras. My theory on the tree tang stamps is simple; I think it's just knives made in different factories and/or countries using the dies available to them at the time. Though these dies were consistent with the time periods, there were subtle differences in them from shop to shop. There is one consistent thing I have noticed in the older knives (ex. Improved Cutlery), the tree stamps themselves are usually a little bigger and more "scragglier" looking. I have some H. Boker & co's Improved Cutlery with tree stamps that cover almost the entire blade tang, while others are much smaller.
The main things to remember regarding old Boker tang stamps is to pay close attention to what the tang actually says, the placement of the tree on the tang; front or backside (the older ones will have the tree stamped on the backside opposite to the lettering on ALL blades) and whether or not ALL tangs are stamped with a tree. The newer knives (except for reproductions) will not have a tree stamped on each tang. Also, just look at the knife overall. Does it look old & well made? Remember, these knives were made to use; not collect.
These old H. Boker's are the only knives that I collect, but that doesn't mean I have all the right answers. In my opinion, Goins' Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings is about as close as you can get regarding tang stamps and dates. Mark Zalesky's Boker article in Knifeworld is also an excellent reference source. There are some stamps and dates that he disagrees a little with Goins' opinion and he may very well be right in doing so. There will never be a definitive history on Boker due to the fact that when their factories were destroyed in WWII, a lot of information was lost as well. Also, Boker never considered tang stamps as a way of dating knives. Stamps were more aligned with when & where they were doing business at the time; and even then they could vary. ::dang::
Attached are some variations of the H. Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery stamp.
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109-0992_IMG.JPG
109-0993_IMG.JPG
111-1109_IMG.JPG
111-1108_IMG.JPG
109-0913_IMG.JPG
111-1134_IMG.JPG
112-1270_IMG.JPG
A pocket knife is still an intimate personal possession of the individual who carries it and consequently deserves the best of materials, finish and workmanship in its production. (Quoted from Boker's 1928 cutlery catalog).
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by thegreedygulo »

Here's some good reference material for Boker knives: Two pages from Goins' Encyclopedia Of Cutlery Markings, one page from Levine's Guide To Knives And Their Values 4th edition and two pages from Mark Zalesky's article on Bokers in Knife World.
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Goins' page 28.JPG
Goins' page 29.JPG
Levine's 4th edition.JPG
Mark Zalesky's Boker Tang Stamps 1.JPG
Mark Zalesky's Boker Tang Stamps 2.JPG
A pocket knife is still an intimate personal possession of the individual who carries it and consequently deserves the best of materials, finish and workmanship in its production. (Quoted from Boker's 1928 cutlery catalog).
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by rangerbluedog »

great resources there!
I notice goin's has a pic of your dog knife!
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by FRJ »

thegreedygulo,
thanks for saveing me from post traumatic tang stamp conundrum. I couldn't match up the stamp on my, or Jerrys knife.
Now I have a little research to do, and I am looking forward to it.
Thanks for the great information.

Thanks Jerry.
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by jerryd6818 »

Wow!! Thanks GG.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
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"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by garddogg56 »

Thanks boy's Boker is interesting ::tu::
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by knifegirl888 »

As a piece of interest, I actually first became interested in knives by trying to date a Boker by the branches on the trees. I started searching Boker & then Google soon brought me to AAPK. Those crazy tree limbs are hard to decipher. ::nod::
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by trail »

Blue says the skinny trees are the old ones...
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by PACKLEAD3R »

Hello
Can you tell me about this
H.Boker&Co's
Improved
Cutlery


Thank you for your time and wealth of knowledge on the Boker brand
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Re: Any info on H.Boker improved cutlery

Post by AzBlaCCi »

Just came across this. Thanks for this informative post.
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