Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Hi! New to the forum but have been desperate to get in and hear from some Boker enthusiasts. My Grampa has gifted me an old pen knife that I’ve loved since I was wee and I’ve spent some time trying to trace its origins to report back to him (he has no clue where he picked it up!)
https://imgur.com/a/KmHtE7D
Stamped H Boker & Co’s Improved Cutlery (NOT improved cutlery Germany) and the tang Tree looks to be 1915’s variant, so I believe it was manufactured some time in the 20-30s, unsure if German or American.
It has a really distinctive Canadian Coat of Arms that Reddit has helped trace to a variant of 1873’s seven-quartered arms of Canada.
I have scrolled through countless threads on this forum and others and cannot seem to find a knife that matches my own, or has a design similar enough to get a narrowed down manufacture date and WHY this design? I believe it commemorates something, perhaps the CEF?
I believe my Grampa has picked this up whilst boxing in Germany with the army during the 50s, but this is entirely guess work based on my findings so far.
Would love to learn everything I can about it and grateful for your time and experience!
https://imgur.com/a/KmHtE7D
Stamped H Boker & Co’s Improved Cutlery (NOT improved cutlery Germany) and the tang Tree looks to be 1915’s variant, so I believe it was manufactured some time in the 20-30s, unsure if German or American.
It has a really distinctive Canadian Coat of Arms that Reddit has helped trace to a variant of 1873’s seven-quartered arms of Canada.
I have scrolled through countless threads on this forum and others and cannot seem to find a knife that matches my own, or has a design similar enough to get a narrowed down manufacture date and WHY this design? I believe it commemorates something, perhaps the CEF?
I believe my Grampa has picked this up whilst boxing in Germany with the army during the 50s, but this is entirely guess work based on my findings so far.
Would love to learn everything I can about it and grateful for your time and experience!
Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Sorry, I'm not able to help with any info on your knife; but, it is a very nice looking knife. Additionally, a "family knife" always holds a special place, in my collection.
Welcome to AAPK!
Welcome to AAPK!
Heretical Refurb / Mods of cheap old folders, since late 2018
- RevolverGuy
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
That's a beautiful gentleman's knife and a unique heirloom to you. And indicative of the stamp is sterling silver too. I really like the inlaid pattern on the one side. Not sure what it is. Might be mother of pearl, or some kind of acrylic, maybe foil?, but it looks like stained glass. I wonder if the coat of arms is part of your family heritage? I would try to research that out further. To answer your question your Boker is most likely from the 1920-30s. The three line tang stamp with the use of Improved Cutlery was one of the stamps used in that time period. The blades are carbon steel and made in Solingen, Germany.
H.BOKER & CO'S
IMPROVED
CUTLERY
Also the tree stamp on the opposite blade tang was the style used from 1920s–early 1960. Boker changed the depiction of that tree several times over the years. Thank you for sharing your knife with us.
H.BOKER & CO'S
IMPROVED
CUTLERY
Also the tree stamp on the opposite blade tang was the style used from 1920s–early 1960. Boker changed the depiction of that tree several times over the years. Thank you for sharing your knife with us.
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
RG, how do you get this: "And indicative of the stamp is sterling silver too" ?
Neither handle nor blades looks like silver to me. Please explain.
thanks, kj
Neither handle nor blades looks like silver to me. Please explain.
thanks, kj
- RevolverGuy
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Sorry my eyes are getting older. I read "STERLING" on the side of one of the scales. So just to double check I went ahead and enlarged it on screen, then increased the brightness level so I could read it again. I'll attach that edited photo here. I believe it does say STERLING and has a maker's mark. This may help the owner track down who did the work on the scales and what country. That Boker was rehandled at some point. There are tens of thousands of silver hallmarks and makers marks from all around the world. The following website lists some of them but in the short time I took to looking I could not find that particular one on the knife: https://www.925-1000.com/
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Thanks RG. The only picture I see is the one in post 2. I tried the imgur link but only see black screen, no pictures. My internet connection is slow so I guess unable to show the pictures that you can see.
Are both sides sterling or just the back side ?
Could someone post the imgur pictures here for all to see.
kj
Are both sides sterling or just the back side ?
Could someone post the imgur pictures here for all to see.
kj
Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Here are all the images! I believe it’s Sterling also from the stamp and haven’t even questioned it. It would surprise me that it had been rehandled, the condition seems fair given the age - though I found a 1901 catalog that showed all aluminium models so does this mean it’s rare or unusual to be sterling?
Thanks everyone for your responses, I’m enjoying finding out more!
Thanks everyone for your responses, I’m enjoying finding out more!
- RevolverGuy
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Hi mollyr. I think it was rehandled. Probably done around the same period (1920s-30s) or shortly after. It would have been incredibly rare for a factory knife to have been done like yours; especially during the depression era. Vintage Boker's from that period were commonly done in rosewood, ebony, horn, and jigged bone (sometimes this was labeled stag). Another indication to yours being a custom is how the pivot/bolster pins sort of protrude a little further out than usual. That's from taking the original pins out and then repinning. A factory knife would have had pins flush with scale or polished so it would hardly be seen at all.
Boker had a lot of different two blade patterns. They were normally a 4 digit number. Later in the 40s and 50s the USA knives were stamping them on the blades. I don't know which yours would have been but looking at an old 1924 catalog, this one below, pattern 9153 seems like it could be it.
- thegreedygulo
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
mollyr: Nice knife! Here are my thoughts on it. I think it was German made sometime between 1869-1914 (most likely on the later end of that date range). It is sterling and has not been rehandled. That type of painted handle is referred to as Cloisonne'. It is basically enamel paint that is baked onto the designs of the knife. I have seen other variations of that style of knife and will post some pictures below. Mine are not the Improved Cutlery tang stamp, but are old H. Bokers. The first two knives are mine and do not have sterling silver handles. The last knife with the fishes does have sterling silver handles. I borrowed the picture from another post for comparison.
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=48689
Regarding the tang stamp: That is the ONLY H. Boker & Co.'s Improved Cutlery tang stamp that was used by both Germany (1869-1910) and the U.S. (1899-1920's). This according to Mark Zalesky's Boker article in Knife World. Goins Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings Fourth Edition dates that stamp from 1869-1914. One thing to note is knives stamped from the 1920-1930 era will have H. Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery on the master tang, BUT will have Boker in script on the smaller blades.
I hope this helps
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=48689
Regarding the tang stamp: That is the ONLY H. Boker & Co.'s Improved Cutlery tang stamp that was used by both Germany (1869-1910) and the U.S. (1899-1920's). This according to Mark Zalesky's Boker article in Knife World. Goins Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings Fourth Edition dates that stamp from 1869-1914. One thing to note is knives stamped from the 1920-1930 era will have H. Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery on the master tang, BUT will have Boker in script on the smaller blades.
I hope this helps
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- Boker Fish 1.jpg (32.77 KiB) Viewed 3531 times
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- Boker Fish 2.jpg (29.7 KiB) Viewed 3531 times
A pocket knife is still an intimate personal possession of the individual who carries it and consequently deserves the best of materials, finish and workmanship in its production. (Quoted from Boker's 1928 cutlery catalog).
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
I think tgg's above post shows that O.P. knife is all original and has sterling handle on back side. The enamel paint work is in exceptionally fine condition. Most of the vintage German knives with Cloisonne work have lost most of the paint as it is not durable. I think the images are of the Coat of Arms for the Canadian Provinces and Territories. tgg shows a Boker with similar images. These were likely sold in higher end shops at major Canadian tourist locals like Banff Alberta, Niagara Falls, Ontario, etc.
I think these cloisonne images make it a historically significant knife. The damage to end of master blade does decrease value.
kj
I think these cloisonne images make it a historically significant knife. The damage to end of master blade does decrease value.
kj
Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Wow, thanks so much! Amazing to hear it’s actually older than originally thought and definitely that it’s quite historically significant - my Grampa will be delighted to hear he’s held onto a winner all this time.
Interesting to know that it’s the only stamp used in both Germany and USA, felt as though that was a missing part of the puzzle. All signs were telling me that as it was H Boker & Co it was the Americanised stamp, however I was pretty certain he picked it up in Germany so that puts that one to bed at least.
Interesting to know these would have been sold at the tourist hot spots, I was wondering if there was any significance in this Canadian design, if it was created to commemorate a battle win or something but I see from the images shared, Canadian designs must have been the ticket back then. This has all been so interesting, really grateful for everyones thoughts!
Interesting to know that it’s the only stamp used in both Germany and USA, felt as though that was a missing part of the puzzle. All signs were telling me that as it was H Boker & Co it was the Americanised stamp, however I was pretty certain he picked it up in Germany so that puts that one to bed at least.
Interesting to know these would have been sold at the tourist hot spots, I was wondering if there was any significance in this Canadian design, if it was created to commemorate a battle win or something but I see from the images shared, Canadian designs must have been the ticket back then. This has all been so interesting, really grateful for everyones thoughts!
Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Interesting, TGG. Nice knife and good post!
Heretical Refurb / Mods of cheap old folders, since late 2018
- thegreedygulo
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Re: Trying to ID H Boker & Co Improved Cutlery
Thanks Doc B.
A pocket knife is still an intimate personal possession of the individual who carries it and consequently deserves the best of materials, finish and workmanship in its production. (Quoted from Boker's 1928 cutlery catalog).