Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Schatt & Morgan knives were first manufacturer back in 1890. The Queen Cutlery company made most of the more recent examples, but Schatt had its own plant in its earlier years that cranked out the oldies. There is no shortage of fantastic Schatt & Morgan knives in existance that have been made over the brand's long & storied history.
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Gilbert
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Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Gilbert »

Are the Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks that are being sold on Ebay authentic ?? As These knives don't look like anything made out of Queen Factory.
The Queen Factory has been Closed for 21 months now. I have never seen an Authentic Queen Factory knife made This way. What say you??
Thanks, Gil
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by bdev »

Post a few links from ebay so we can see the ones you are questioning. Thanks.
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by jerryd6818 »

Or better yet, copy pictures off of eBay and post them here for posterity. A link to eBay will become useless in no time but a picture on AAPK will last as long as the forum lasts. A nod to future researchers.
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Gunsil »

The only truly "authentic" Schatt&Morgan knives were made before Queen bought them out in 1931.
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Gilbert »

I am not sure how to post pictures any tips lol I am very Confident that most of the Schatt & Morgan, Toothpicks selling on Amazon, Walmart and Ebay with the Glued on Corleone handles were not made at the Queen Factory, If they were I would have some factory samples and at least some records of the transaction. They look like China knockoffs What say ye? Thanks, Gil
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Gilbert »

21DawcKQalL._AC_UL320_ schatt.jpg
21DawcKQalL._AC_UL320_ schatt.jpg (5.95 KiB) Viewed 6494 times
Robo
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Robo »

Sadly, Queen was probably grasping at straws in the end and jumped on to the "Tiny-Toothpick" bandwagon. I can't say for sure if these were made in China or if some of them were and others were made here--Case does this with their TTs. Even the larger, American made S&Ms pale in comparrison to the originals. The problem I think is that when you start packaging everything as a "collector's knife"; or Evoke an old trade mark like "Schatt & Morgan" potential buyers are going to view these knives with a more critical eye. And if they have any amount of savy they're never going to be completely satisfied, even if the knife unto itself is well made, as many are.

Early on I bought a Queen made "Robeson" toothpick with "Strawberry Bone" handles before I really knew anything about Robeson's Toothpicks. I ended up with a knife made with the Queen handle die with these almost bizarre looking orange handles. The irony to me is I've since purchased two Robesons with "Strawberry Bone" and a couple with plastic "strawberry bone". It turns out Robeson was cutting corners after WWII and this was the time that, amongst other cover materials, they began using "strawberry bone"and then plastic "strawberry bone".

But retro pakaging and promotion aside, my Queen "Robeson" is a very well made knife. I also have a regular old Queen Toothy from 94 and it's very well made (both have the classic Queen bolsters which are prettier bolsters then any other Toothpick bolsters on the planet). Either would make a great EDC-- and that's what should matter at the end of the day.
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S&M new
S&M new
S&M new
S&M new
Schatt & Morgan of old
Schatt & Morgan of old
Schatt & Morgan of old
Schatt & Morgan of old
(L-R) Robeson; plastic, Queen "Robeson"; Robeson "Strawberry Bone"
(L-R) Robeson; plastic, Queen "Robeson"; Robeson "Strawberry Bone"
Gilbert
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Gilbert »

Thanks for the Pictures of some nice American made Queen factory knives. All of your styles and makes were in the queen factory Bins at their June 1st auction this year. I have examples of all four tooth picks sizes that they made. The handles are definitely out of Character to the bone , Stag, etc that queen made, The factory closed a little before Christmas 2017. These have been showing up for several months now.
I asked the seller's where the Knives were made they all said the exact same thing Made by Schatt & Morgan in Titusville, Pa. I told them that the handles looked Chinese and That I have never seen a Schatt with that style of Handle, and Glued on with maybe one pin, Then they told me that These were special ordered Knives, made at the factory.
I told them that was odd I don't recall seeing any Toothpicks, With these handles at the Factory auction Bins. There wasn't any of this color of handle material at the factory Either. Then they said that these are authentic Schatt & Morgans that they had the handles custom made. and that they bought the skeletons from Schatt & Morgan, None of this was originally said by the seller. The handles look like they were put on in china. but Most likely the whole knife was made there. The factory has been closed for 21 months now. I will wait to see what else they say about them. I will be tearing one down this week to see if it is a Schatt or not Thank you very much for your thoughts on these knives. I guess anything is possible. Gil
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by kennedy knives »

Gilbert wrote:Thanks for the Pictures of some nice American made Queen factory knives. All of your styles and makes were in the queen factory Bins at their June 1st auction this year. I have examples of all four tooth picks sizes that they made. The handles are definitely out of Character to the bone , Stag, etc that queen made, The factory closed a little before Christmas 2017. These have been showing up for several months now.
I asked the seller's where the Knives were made they all said the exact same thing Made by Schatt & Morgan in Titusville, Pa. I told them that the handles looked Chinese and That I have never seen a Schatt with that style of Handle, and Glued on with maybe one pin, Then they told me that These were special ordered Knives, made at the factory.
I told them that was odd I don't recall seeing any Toothpicks, With these handles at the Factory auction Bins. There wasn't any of this color of handle material at the factory Either. Then they said that these are authentic Schatt & Morgans that they had the handles custom made. and that they bought the skeletons from Schatt & Morgan, None of this was originally said by the seller. The handles look like they were put on in china. but Most likely the whole knife was made there. The factory has been closed for 21 months now. I will wait to see what else they say about them. I will be tearing one down this week to see if it is a Schatt or not Thank you very much for your thoughts on these knives. I guess anything is possible. Gil
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by WelderBob »

I hope you find the culprit's responsible and appropriate actions can be taken.

My only S&M is of all things a toothpick, a very well made knife. Rob, I noticed yours has a different stamp, I'm pretty sure this is a original.
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IMG_8717.JPG
IMG_8718.JPG
Bob

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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Gilbert »

Bob, Nice Toothpick. As far as the little Toothpicks We are working on it and other things as well. As the little toothpick that I pictured never came out of the factory, with those handles, as the seller states.
Now It could be a Schatt & Morgan skeleton and the handles outsourced. Sure looks like China handles as most are glued on.
Its not something that we would like to see on a Factory made Schatt & Morgan Knife. the factory has been closed for almost 2 years, but there are still people making and selling Schatt & Morgan Knives.
We are working on stopping this also. Some People reading these posts know whos making The Queen Factory Knives. Thanks, Gil
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Lansky1 »

GIlbert - just picked up a Queen/Robeson tiny toothpick online - fit and finish is top notch. Ever seen one with this kind of unusual jigging pattern ? Thx
q2.jpg
q1.jpg
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

Gilbert wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:37 am Are the Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks that are being sold on Ebay authentic ?? As These knives don't look like anything made out of Queen Factory.
The Queen Factory has been Closed for 21 months now. I have never seen an Authentic Queen Factory knife made This way. What say you??
Thanks, Gil
Glad you asked this question. I’ve seen these on eBay over and over and just knew these either weren’t legit or were modified. I’ve stayed away and will.
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Robo »

WelderBob wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:04 pm I hope you find the culprit's responsible and appropriate actions can be taken.

My only S&M is of all things a toothpick, a very well made knife. Rob, I noticed yours has a different stamp, I'm pretty sure this is a original.

WB, My apologies! I never saw this post until tonight! First: what a gorgeous knife--WOW! Yes, this tang stamp was also used. I recently bought another one of thses large toothpicks with the same stamp. Thanks for the photos!

I've been distracted lately and haven't visited the site as often as I used to, but I'm still always looking for nice vintage Toothothpicks/ticklers. So keep me in mind if you ever get the hankering to sell this one or...that dang Camillus...
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Robo »

Lansky1 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:09 am GIlbert - just picked up a Queen/Robeson tiny toothpick online - fit and finish is top notch. Ever seen one with this kind of unusual jigging pattern ? Thx

q2.jpg

q1.jpg
Thanks for the photos. They definetly have the same sheen as their bigger cousins. As you stated,this one looks well made. I recently discovered that these small versions of bigger patterns weren't sold as lesser quality novelties back in the day but they were infact very well made and actually cost more-- per dozen-- than the full size versions. I imagine they were a lot more labor intensive.

Below: A "tiny" Henry Sears "1865" Brand Toothpick made by Utica Cut Co. and Henry Sears Knife ads with both the "tiny" version (two blade) and the full size single blade version Also Note the tickler with the fancy bolsters and saber grind blade, this was made by Ulster Knife Company.

(A lot of collectors when unsure of a contract knife's origin-- Levine and Goins included-- jump to the conclusion that it's a Camillus contract knife. But Utica had a huge footprint in the contract market.) Both The Camillus pattern and the Utica pattern Toothpick/Tickler/switch back/etc had a distinctive look. so they're easy to the decerning eye to recognize even with another company's brand stamp)
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Henry Sears "1865" Brand small Tickler Made by Utica
Henry Sears "1865" Brand small Tickler Made by Utica
Note Price per Doz Vs. Price Per Doz. of Full Size Tickler
Note Price per Doz Vs. Price Per Doz. of Full Size Tickler
Note Price per Doz Vs. Small version
Note Price per Doz Vs. Small version
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Robo »

Robo wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:03 pm Sadly, Queen was probably grasping at straws in the end and jumped on to the "Tiny-Toothpick" bandwagon. I can't say for sure if these were made in China or if some of them were and others were made here--Case does this with their TTs. Even the larger, American made S&Ms pale in comparrison to the originals. The problem I think is that when you start packaging everything as a "collector's knife"; or Evoke an old trade mark like "Schatt & Morgan" potential buyers are going to view these knives with a more critical eye. And if they have any amount of savy they're never going to be completely satisfied, even if the knife unto itself is well made, as many are.

Early on I bought a Queen made "Robeson" toothpick with "Strawberry Bone" handles before I really knew anything about Robeson's Toothpicks. I ended up with a knife made with the Queen handle die with these almost bizarre looking orange handles. The irony to me is I've since purchased two Robesons with "Strawberry Bone" and a couple with plastic "strawberry bone". It turns out Robeson was cutting corners after WWII and this was the time that, amongst other cover materials, they began using "strawberry bone"and then plastic "strawberry bone". And they didn't make a "pocketeze" Tickler--probably because the outsized 5 inch knife can't be made to be easy on the pocket!

But retro pakaging and promotion aside, my Queen "Robeson" is a very well made knife. I also have a regular old Queen Toothy from 94 and it's very well made (both have the classic Queen bolsters which are prettier bolsters then any other Toothpick bolsters on the planet). Either would make a great EDC-- and that's what should matter at the end of the day.
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Robo »

Robo wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:03 pm Sadly, Queen was probably grasping at straws in the end and jumped on to the "Tiny-Toothpick" bandwagon. I can't say for sure if these were made in China or if some of them were and others were made here--Case does this with their TTs. Even the larger, American made S&Ms pale in comparrison to the originals. The problem I think is that when you start packaging everything as a "collector's knife"; or Evoke an old trade mark like "Schatt & Morgan" potential buyers are going to view these knives with a more critical eye. And if they have any amount of savy they're never going to be completely satisfied, even if the knife unto itself is well made, as many are.

Early on I bought a Queen made "Robeson" toothpick with "Strawberry Bone" handles before I really knew anything about Robeson's Toothpicks. I ended up with a knife made with the Queen handle die with these almost bizarre looking orange handles. The irony to me is I've since purchased two Robesons with "Strawberry Bone" and a couple with plastic "strawberry bone". It turns out Robeson was cutting corners after WWII and this was the time that, amongst other cover materials, they began using "strawberry bone"and then plastic "strawberry bone". And they didn't make a "pocketeze" Tickler--probably because the outsized 5 inch knife can't be made to be easy on the pocket!

But retro pakaging and promotion aside, my Queen "Robeson" is a very well made knife. I also have a regular old Queen Toothy from 94 and it's very well made (both have the classic Queen bolsters which are prettier bolsters then any other Toothpick bolsters on the planet). Either would make a great EDC-- and that's what should matter at the end of the day.
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knowtracks
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by knowtracks »

I'm surprised at you people! These small toothpicks have been on flea bay for years. I remember talking to Clarence after seeing them and he told me that someone bought a large number without covers and are trying to finish and sell them. They are Queen made knives and have been on flea bay for over 10 years.

Dave
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by Robo »

Robo wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:39 am
Lansky1 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:09 am GIlbert - just picked up a Queen/Robeson tiny toothpick online - fit and finish is top notch. Ever seen one with this kind of unusual jigging pattern ? Thx

q2.jpg

q1.jpg
Also Note the tickler with the fancy bolsters and saber grind blade, this was made by Ulster Knife Company.


Correction! Sticking to my motto that "collectors correct!" I have to correct myself here. The knife with the fancy flat bolsters and sabre grind blade is made by Camillus. I looked at patterns for a couple years trying to figure out who made these and the absolute closest I have come to matching handle dies is the earlier camillus toothpick pattern. There is a lot more explaining needed here, but I was reviewing old posts and when I came upon this one I felt the need to correct it. More later including photos.
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Re: Schatt & Morgan Toothpicks

Post by knowtracks »

Another original....
IMG_3308 (2).JPG
IMG_3309 (2).JPG

Dave
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