My newest Queen

The Queen Cutlery Company manufactured knives in Titusville Pennsylvania for 96 years. The company opened its only factory there in 1919 and commenced to make some of the best US crafted cutlery you will find. Unfortunately, the Titusville manufacturing plant closed down in 2018.
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treefarmer
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by treefarmer »

knifegnome, the tang stamp chart here on AAPK shows the sideways Q to be '52-'55. ::shrug::
Your knife really looked familiar so I looked and I have one very similar. The length of mine is 3 5/16", it too has what appears to be 9 dots above the Q. I think my knife is a pattern #3. The Queen catalog dated 1947 shows a different tang stamp on the #3 rather than the sideways Q.
I've not heard that Queen knives could be dated by the number of dots like the Case dating system, would love to know more about this.
This is my #3 with sideways Q:
006.JPG
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by bighomer »

Pretty decent knife, could be 49 years old or 59 ::shrug::
Must of spent a lot of time in somebody's sock drawer.
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by TPK »

Hello Fellow Queen Fans,

Finally got my very first Queen knife this week. ::groove:: ::ds:: It was gifted to me from my Buddy John (1967redrider). We are both from the same hometown in MD. ::nod:: Goooooo Fort Hill!!! ::tu:: LOL! :lol:

So anyways, it's a nice Barlow with enclosed springs. (Also my first knife with enclosed springs.) ::tu::
The blade etching reads "Queen Steel #22" and it's stamped "PAT. NO. 2728139". It's a beautiful light weight Barlow & I'm sure these "Bad Boys" make for a great EDC! ::tu:: Beings this is the one & only Queen in my collection so far, ::hmm:: this one will be in my little showcase for the meantime or until further notice. ::nod:: ::super_happy::

I have a few questions & if anyone would like to share their wisdom on any of them with me I'd greatly appreciate it! ::handshake:: ::nod:: Would save me the time of researching them if anyone wants to chime in with the answers. ::super_happy::

I'm curious to know..., ::hmm::

1) In what timeframe roughly, were these #22 Queens produced? Or does the stamp indicate a timeframe?

2) Did they make these with other handle materials? Like Stag, Black Derlin, MOP ::shrug::

3) Did any other cutlery manufacturers also make knives with enclosed springs?

4) Were there any Schatt & Morgan knives made with enclosed springs?

5) Did Queen make any other pattern #'s with enclosed springs?

I'm curious about all this stuff because I'm always looking for new ideas for small collections of similar knives. For example Queen #22's with different handle materials. Or maybe knives with enclosed springs. ::shrug::

Thanks in advanced for your comments, Thanks for looking at the pictures & Thanks again to you John! ::tu::
I'm very proud & lucky to own this wonderful piece of Queen Cutlery History! ::super_happy::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by bdev »

1) In what timeframe roughly, were these #22 Queens produced? Or does the stamp indicate a timeframe?
1961-71

2) Did they make these with other handle materials? Like Stag, Black Derlin, MOP.
I don't believe the #22 was made with any other handle.

3) Did any other cutlery manufacturers also make knives with enclosed springs?
Don't know.

4) Were there any Schatt & Morgan knives made with enclosed springs?
Don't believe so.

5) Did Queen make any other pattern #'s with enclosed springs?
Yes. The #45 Big Chief and the #23 Barlow which used a spear blade instead of a clip like your #22. Also the #27 which was a sheepfoot barlow. I don't recall any others.
Queen City. My favorite! Bruno. ::tu::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by treefarmer »

Congratulations on your 1st Queen, Tom!
Bruno (bdev) has always helped me figure out Queen issues and believe me they are a bit confusing. I'm not contradicting Bruno's response to your valid questions but will add a bit more that I have just discovered this evening by going through the Queen catalogs that are on line.

It seems the #22 with the Aluminum frame was still pictured in the 2002 catalog. In earlier catalogs, the #22 Barlow is shown with real bone handles with 4 pins showing in the handles, then as the concept of the Aluminum closed frame was introduced, the #22 was included in that offering.

The Aluminum frame #22's only have 2 pins showing in the handles, they appear to be identical in shape and size, have the same pattern number and blades but are totally different. The earlier #22 has brass liners and one in the center between the two blades. The best I could gather, there were, in addition to the #45 and it's various models, six Queens Barlows made with the aluminum closed frame, 22,23,25,27 and two single blade patterns, the #60 and the 60SH. The last available catalog, 2017, shows the Queen Barlow with a totally different pattern number, #69 ::shrug:: and it seems to be a traditional frame.
The blade offering of the main blade was clip, spear, one hand opening and sheep foot.
Here's are pictures showing some of the differences:
Queen Barlows, check out the difference 4 pins vs 2 pins same size and shape but really quite different.  The one arm knife (center) just showed up recently thanks to Stanwade.
Queen Barlows, check out the difference 4 pins vs 2 pins same size and shape but really quite different. The one arm knife (center) just showed up recently thanks to Stanwade.
Tang stamps side ways Q '51-'54 other two are "76.  The red one was rehandled thanks to Jerryd.
Tang stamps side ways Q '51-'54 other two are "76. The red one was rehandled thanks to Jerryd.
Hope this helps a bit.
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by Gone2Three »

Just posted on the Finds of the day thread about this amazing find! Couldn't be more giddy about bringing it home ::woot::
Now all I have to do is figure out what model I found ::hmm:: it's an old one

Ps, this thread makes me drool.... you all have posted some beautiful Queen knives ::tu::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by treefarmer »

What is the closed length of the Queen City? Are the bolsters the same size, I can't quite tell from the picture? Maybe we can come up with a pattern #.
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by TPK »

bdev wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:15 am 1) In what timeframe roughly, were these #22 Queens produced? Or does the stamp indicate a timeframe?
1961-71

2) Did they make these with other handle materials? Like Stag, Black Derlin, MOP.
I don't believe the #22 was made with any other handle.

3) Did any other cutlery manufacturers also make knives with enclosed springs?
Don't know.

4) Were there any Schatt & Morgan knives made with enclosed springs?
Don't believe so.

5) Did Queen make any other pattern #'s with enclosed springs?
Yes. The #45 Big Chief and the #23 Barlow which used a spear blade instead of a clip like your #22. Also the #27 which was a sheepfoot barlow. I don't recall any others.
Thanks for your time & all the great input Bruno. ::handshake:: I really appreciate it! ::tu:: ::nod::
So the 45, 23 & 27 have also been made with enclosed springs. That would make a nice little collection If you could pick up one of each. ::hmm:: Thanks again for this food for thought! ::hmm:: ::super_happy::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by TPK »

treefarmer wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:45 am Congratulations on your 1st Queen, Tom!
Bruno (bdev) has always helped me figure out Queen issues and believe me they are a bit confusing. I'm not contradicting Bruno's response to your valid questions but will add a bit more that I have just discovered this evening by going through the Queen catalogs that are on line.

It seems the #22 with the Aluminum frame was still pictured in the 2002 catalog. In earlier catalogs, the #22 Barlow is shown with real bone handles with 4 pins showing in the handles, then as the concept of the Aluminum closed frame was introduced, the #22 was included in that offering.

The Aluminum frame #22's only have 2 pins showing in the handles, they appear to be identical in shape and size, have the same pattern number and blades but are totally different. The earlier #22 has brass liners and one in the center between the two blades. The best I could gather, there were, in addition to the #45 and it's various models, six Queens Barlows made with the aluminum closed frame, 22,23,25,27 and two single blade patterns, the #60 and the 60SH. The last available catalog, 2017, shows the Queen Barlow with a totally different pattern number, #69 ::shrug:: and it seems to be a traditional frame.
The blade offering of the main blade was clip, spear, one hand opening and sheep foot.
Here's are pictures showing some of the differences:010.JPG011.JPG

Hope this helps a bit.
Treefarmer
Hi Philip,
::hmm:: So in addition to the 22,23,45, & 27, there was also the 25 and two single blade patterns, the #60 and the #60SH.
::hmm::
So it's #22, #23, #25, #27, #45, #60 & #60SH. Put all these together, & it ends with an "SH" meaning, This is a collection all Queen Fans "Should Have" :mrgreen:

Looks like you have a nice start on this already treefarmer! ::tu:: That one with bone :shock: is an exceptionally fine example of Queen's History! ::tu:: What a beautiful piece of cutlery! ::nod:: Congrats on having found that one! It's awesome! ::super_happy::

Thanks for your time & the additional information. ::handshake:: I appreciate all the help! ::nod:: ::super_happy::
YF,
Tom
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by TPK »

Gone2Three wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:00 am Just posted on the Finds of the day thread about this amazing find! Couldn't be more giddy about bringing it home ::woot::
Now all I have to do is figure out what model I found ::hmm:: it's an old one

Ps, this thread makes me drool.... you all have posted some beautiful Queen knives ::tu::
Congrats on that one! ::handshake:: It's a real Beauty! ::nod:: ::super_happy::
TOM - KGFG - (Knife-Guy-From-Germany)

I believe..., every knife is a soul, looking for a soulmate. :wink:

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Re: My newest Queen

Post by bdev »

Gone2Three wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:00 am Just posted on the Finds of the day thread about this amazing find! Couldn't be more giddy about bringing it home ::woot::
Now all I have to do is figure out what model I found ::hmm:: it's an old one

Ps, this thread makes me drool.... you all have posted some beautiful Queen knives ::tu::
Looks to be the same pattern as a Queen #4 Sleeveboard Pen with pearl handles. I'm guessing it's 3 5/16" in the closed position.
Queen City. My favorite! Bruno. ::tu::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by Gone2Three »

bdev wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:45 pm
Gone2Three wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:00 am Just posted on the Finds of the day thread about this amazing find! Couldn't be more giddy about bringing it home ::woot::
Now all I have to do is figure out what model I found ::hmm:: it's an old one

Ps, this thread makes me drool.... you all have posted some beautiful Queen knives ::tu::
Looks to be the same pattern as a Queen #4 Sleeveboard Pen with pearl handles. I'm guessing it's 3 5/16" in the closed position.
Thanks for the reply Bruno, It measures 3 1/4" closed if I'm looking at this correctly. Or my China made inexpensive tape measure could be slightly off ::hmm::
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Re: My newest Queen

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Gone2Three wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:00 am
bdev wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:45 pm
Gone2Three wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:00 am Just posted on the Finds of the day thread about this amazing find! Couldn't be more giddy about bringing it home ::woot::
Now all I have to do is figure out what model I found ::hmm:: it's an old one

Ps, this thread makes me drool.... you all have posted some beautiful Queen knives ::tu::
Looks to be the same pattern as a Queen #4 Sleeveboard Pen with pearl handles. I'm guessing it's 3 5/16" in the closed position.
Thanks for the reply Bruno, It measures 3 1/4" closed if I'm looking at this correctly. Or my China made inexpensive tape measure could be slightly off ::hmm::
Close enough to 5/16" to make it a #4.
Queen City. My favorite! Bruno. ::tu::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by Gone2Three »

bdev wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:39 pm
Gone2Three wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:00 am
bdev wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:45 pm

Looks to be the same pattern as a Queen #4 Sleeveboard Pen with pearl handles. I'm guessing it's 3 5/16" in the closed position.
Thanks for the reply Bruno, It measures 3 1/4" closed if I'm looking at this correctly. Or my China made inexpensive tape measure could be slightly off ::hmm::
Close enough to 5/16" to make it a #4.
Nice! A #4 ::super_happy:: a buddy of mine offered me 40 bucks for it, not sure if I should have sold it to him. Hanging on to it for now...
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by Gone2Three »

treefarmer wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:40 am What is the closed length of the Queen City? Are the bolsters the same size, I can't quite tell from the picture? Maybe we can come up with a pattern #.
Treefarmer
Apologies Treefarmer, I didn't see your response until I scrolled up on the thread. A little late but the answer to the question is the bolsters are not same size. One slighty smaller than the other
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by treefarmer »

Not a problem, I can see from your last picture that it is a Sleeve Board, the oldest catalog on line that I have seen, 1947 lists the #4 as having genuine mother of pearl handles, the #3 is the same frame with bone handles. The tang stamp on your knife falls in the 1922-'42 era. ::tu::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by Ripster »

Got a 1972 only? And Sideways Q78 ? The 2 bladeQ78 has nice etch that says Queen steel #15 over made inUSA is this a Queen Congress? And the 1972 only is that the model or tang stamp that’s 72 only? Don’t know much about Queen, in fact these 2 should go to a Queen collector . So the more I can learn here ,great . Your time and help is appreciated .almost forgot ,are the handles what you would call Winterbottom?
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by treefarmer »

Great old Queens, Ripster!
The #15 is called a Congress, the 78 indicates year of mfg. Usually a 2 bladed knife with this pattern is called a half congress, one with 4 is sometimes a "full congress". Both 2 and 4 blade like this are simply refered to as a Stag Congress in the old Queen catalog.
The other knife, if it is 3 1/2" closed is probably a #51, called a Stag Dogleg Jack by Queen at that time.
Both knives appear to have imitation Winterbottom bone handles which is not a bad thing. Probably more durable than real Winterbottom bone if you want to use as an EDC. The real Winterbottom has a special look as it ages and is very desirable to collectors of older Queen knives.
Hope this helps.
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Re: My newest Queen

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treefarmer wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:50 pm Great old Queens, Ripster!
The #15 is called a Congress, the 78 indicates year of mfg. Usually a 2 bladed knife with this pattern is called a half congress, one with 4 is sometimes a "full congress". Both 2 and 4 blade like this are simply refered to as a Stag Congress in the old Queen catalog.
The other knife, if it is 3 1/2" closed is probably a #51, called a Stag Dogleg Jack by Queen at that time.
Both knives appear to have imitation Winterbottom bone handles which is not a bad thing. Probably more durable than real Winterbottom bone if you want to use as an EDC. The real Winterbottom has a special look as it ages and is very desirable to collectors of older Queen knives.
Hope this helps.
Treefarmer
Thanks Treefarmer,and now the calling of a half congress and full congress makes sense. The other knife IS 3 1/2 closed ,so is a #51, . Is this 51 also called a slim ? Because of size and how center pin is close to end bolster?? Sure appreciate your response and help,Queen is a interesting Company.Whats there status today? Both these knives are solid little EDC, will carry them a little here and there. Then C if some one around here may want them . Thanks again and be safe out there.
JP
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by treefarmer »

Ripster,
I'm not sure about the #51 being called a slim. There is a #11 that has several different names that seem to maybe match the description as a slim. They remind me of the similarities of the Case 048's and the Case 54's. There is a #19 Trapper and a #24 Trapper that would be a bit larger and heavier than the #51, could be viewed as a "slim". But other patterns may be comparable in shape and size, the Case Trapper and the Case mini-trapper are examples. The original 6207 had a small pen blade as does the #51 Queen, a clip and a pen.
Here is a site that will help confuse you a bit more: https://queencutleryhistory.com/ This is where to find a lot info, changes from year to year for a lot of years. Lots of name changes for handle materials, etc. All important tang stamp charts that help pin down a particular knife can be found here also.
Sadly Queen went out of business several years back, sold all the equipment and if I remember correctly SMKW now owns the name. There was one knife pattern recently produced by Bear & Son that was supposed to be a Queen. There are comments on that knife here on the forum.
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by QTCut5 »

Exactly...Well said and right on the money, Philip.

Based on my observations (i.e., unofficial and non-referenced), the Queen #51 (3½" Dogleg Jack) has a clip/pen blade configuration but the #51T (3½" Mini Trapper) has a clip/spey set up...even though some of the later model mini trappers (with the clip/spey) were still labeled as #51 (without the "T" on the box label although it is shown on the blade etch).

For Example:
PA240057.JPG
PA240051.JPG
PA170025_1.JPG
PA170022_1.JPG
PA240038.JPG
PA240044.JPG
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by Gone2Three »

treefarmer wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:11 pm Not a problem, I can see from your last picture that it is a Sleeve Board, the oldest catalog on line that I have seen, 1947 lists the #4 as having genuine mother of pearl handles, the #3 is the same frame with bone handles. The tang stamp on your knife falls in the 1922-'42 era. ::tu::
Treefarmer
Appreciate that additional information! ::handshake::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by treefarmer »

Q, here is a #51 that is a rather late model but is holding to the original offering of the clip and pen blade. I think these handles are supposed to be spalted Maple.
002.JPG
Nice size if knife if you're not doing much. :) Personally I like the half stops on most knives.
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by bdev »

I think Queen called that maple "Birds Eye Maple". BEM.
Queen City. My favorite! Bruno. ::tu::
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Re: My newest Queen

Post by Ripster »

treefarmer wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:20 am Ripster,
I'm not sure about the #51 being called a slim. There is a #11 that has several different names that seem to maybe match the description as a slim. They remind me of the similarities of the Case 048's and the Case 54's. There is a #19 Trapper and a #24 Trapper that would be a bit larger and heavier than the #51, could be viewed as a "slim". But other patterns may be comparable in shape and size, the Case Trapper and the Case mini-trapper are examples. The original 6207 had a small pen blade as does the #51 Queen, a clip and a pen.
Here is a site that will help confuse you a bit more: https://queencutleryhistory.com/ This is where to find a lot info, changes from year to year for a lot of years. Lots of name changes for handle materials, etc. All important tang stamp charts that help pin down a particular knife can be found here also.
Sadly Queen went out of business several years back, sold all the equipment and if I remember correctly SMKW now owns the name. There was one knife pattern recently produced by Bear & Son that was supposed to be a Queen. There are comments on that knife here on the forum.
Treefarmer
Thank you for the info here TreeFarmer and Q . Learned a lot here about Queen ,in just a few posts ,U guys are a wealth of info.
TF, Should be getting back to you regarding your PM and a price. Be happy to see you get them ! PM you hopefully within the hour, they’re nice EDC ,Blades and walk/talk and 1/2 stops are great. Blades have seen some good use .
Again thanks Q and TF and all here for sharing
JP
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