camillus #14 whittler

carrmillus · Post by **carrmillus** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:52 pm

dale, here's one for you, can't post pix, but i have a camillus half whittler, 2 blade,(clip master-pen secondary), 3 line stamping(short line under camillus), single backspring, secondary blade has a spacer to make up for the difference in blade thickness, brown jigged BONE handles, pinned on, with a blank oval shield(pinned on). the back of the primary blade is stamped "14". this knife is identical to a #72 whittler as far as size and shape-it is in very good condition-do i have something valuable here???/...........

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:24 pm

PM inbound

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:51 am

Mike mailed me some pictures of this knife. Here are scans of the six pictures Mike sent me of this knife.
I have not seen this knife before. Has anyone else seen one like it?
If so please post pictures and sharing information you have on this pattern.

I like the frame of this knife and feel of it in my hand. Since I have so many #72s already, it would be fun to find one of these as well. Mike said he thinks these were built on the same frame as the #72.

Camillus did make a #14 from the 1940s up until at least the late 1970s. It is listed as 3-3/8 inch serpentine jack. But the pictures shown in the catalog show it to be a standard jackknife with both blades on the same end, not on opposite ends.

Mike, I can't tell too well from the pictures, are these bone handles? Could this knife possibly be pre-World War II?

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:54 am

Dale, look at the max magnification of the bottom picture, top view. Handles are definitely bone and beautiful bone at that.

tjmurphy · Post by **tjmurphy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:26 pm

The shield and the jigging say Ulster to me

: MVC-057F.JPG (48.53 KiB) Viewed 3459 times

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:56 pm

T.J. are you saying the one in your hand is an Ulster? Is it same, same Camillus #72? Length closed, etc.? Can you please show it with the blades open.

tjmurphy · Post by **tjmurphy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:59 pm

Yes on all counts. It's a model 63 Does not have match-strike pull like the Camillus

: MVC-097F.JPG (41.94 KiB) Viewed 3454 times

thawk · Post by **thawk** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:10 pm

Very interesting knife Mike. I'm wondering if Camillus took a page from Schrade's book, and used the #14 blades in a 72 frame. I really like it.

Mike, could you verify the length of the knife in the closed position, and the length of the master blade. In the pictures, it appears to me the master blade is much shorter than that of a Cami 72 sabre clip.

TJ's Ulster 63 is the same as a Schrade 863 as well. Schrade originated this pattern back in the early Cut Co days (1936) as a true whittler with both secondary blades in the lower end of the knife. Looking more at the Schrade Cut Catalogs, they did a lot of single spring variations on this balloon pattern too, including one like the Cami Mike has.

tjmurphy · Post by **tjmurphy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:12 pm

Another difference I just noticed between the Camillus and the Ulster is that the coping blade on the Camillus rests in front of the secondary clip blade and on the Ulster is rests behind the secondary clip blade.

: MVC-059F.JPG (47.98 KiB) Viewed 3449 times

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:15 pm

Thanks T.J. That knife just makes me smile. One more to be on the hunt for. This place is killin' me. My lady friend said yesterday, "You're out of control." Could be she's right. Nawww.

thawk · Post by **thawk** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:32 pm

Here is a 1946 Camillus 72 with the same stamp as Mikes, although it has Rogers bone, and a different blade arrangement. I agree Mikes looks more like an Ulster with the jigging style.

And a later Camillus 72 with Delrin scales offered as a BSA.

tjmurphy · Post by **tjmurphy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:42 pm

Different main blades on the '46 vs the BSA? The '46 more up-swept?

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:47 pm

Hal, that bone handled 72 is awesome.

thawk · Post by **thawk** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:53 pm

Definitely more upswept TJ, and by 1948, the coping blade was up by the master, with a small clip in the bottom position.

thawk · Post by **thawk** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:54 pm

jerryd6818 wrote:Hal, that bone handled 72 is awesome.

Thanks. And I agree Jerry, when I opened the mail that day, I wet my pants.

It is one of my favorite knives.

tjmurphy · Post by **tjmurphy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:11 pm

I sure wish that Camillus had stayed with the bone handles but I can understand the reasoning for swithching to Delrin. Made to be working knives and the bone just to fragile, the Delrin nearly indestructable.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:24 pm

I was trying to post this earlier but had issues with Explorer (or maybe my old steam powered PC)

At ant rate here is the post & pics-

jerryd6818 wrote:Dale, look at the max magnification of the bottom picture, top view. Handles are definitely bone and beautiful bone at that.

You're right Jerry. It was late when I put the pictures up and I didn't take the time to look at them closely once I got been posted and could get them larger. I was more interested in getting them posted so everyone can see them.

This morning with a little more time to work with these, I put them through Photoshop. Unfortunately I am working with a digital copy of a print photograph. The print photograph loses a lot of the detail when you enlarge it. The scan of a photograph does not contain the detail that an electronic photograph does. Therefore, tweaking the photo digitally through Photoshop produces limited results. If anyone else cares to try their hand at improving these photos, feel free! My proficiency with Photoshop is certainly limited and I know a lot of people are better at it than I am.

tjmurphy wrote:The shield and the jigging say Ulster to me
The attachment MVC-057F.JPG is no longer available

Tom,
Your Ulster is Delrin isn't it?

tjmurphy · Post by **tjmurphy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:18 pm

I'm thinking it is Dale, but without the "hot pin" test I'm not sure, but won't do that one. It feels very hard and slick, but with a little less ring when tapped.

carrmillus · Post by **carrmillus** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:28 pm

orvet wrote:Mike mailed me some pictures of this knife. Here are scans of the six pictures Mike sent me of this knife.
I have not seen this knife before. Has anyone else seen one like it?
If so please post pictures and sharing information you have on this pattern.

I like the frame of this knife and feel of it in my hand. Since I have so many #72s already, it would be fun to find one of these as well. Mike said he thinks these were built on the same frame as the #72.

Camillus did make a #14 from the 1940s up until at least the late 1970s. It is listed as 3-3/8 inch serpentine jack. But the pictures shown in the catalog show it to be a standard jackknife with both blades on the same end, not on opposite ends.
dale, have you had a chance to look at the pix i sent of the older 4-line half-whittler yet?this is the one i'm really curious about- i know it's older than the #14, also 1/8" longer, and a different shape than the #14-i've never seen another one like it, anywhere.......

Mike, I can't tell too well from the pictures, are these bone handles? Could this knife possibly be pre-World War II?

thawk · Post by **thawk** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:31 pm

Especially looking at this JPG, with the shade of tan, I'm about 99% sure it is bone, even though it has more of a delrin jigging look. It has a natural color and shine that tells me bone.

carrmillus · Post by **carrmillus** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:37 pm

thawk wrote:

Especially looking at this JPG, with the shade of tan, I'm about 90% sure it is bone, even though it has more of a delrin jigging look. It has a natural color and shine that tells me bone.

thawk, they are definitely bone, that's about the only thing i'm definitely sure about on this knife!

thawk · Post by **thawk** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:40 pm

carrmillus wrote:
thawk wrote:
Especially looking at this JPG, with the shade of tan, I'm about 90% sure it is bone, even though it has more of a delrin jigging look. It has a natural color and shine that tells me bone.
thawk, they are definitely bone, that's about the only thing i'm definitely sure about on this knife!

Mike, could you check the closed length on this knife? Is it 3 3/8", 3 1/2", or 3 5/8". Seems like that master blade is shorter than the clip blade on a 72.

Thanks!

carrmillus · Post by **carrmillus** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:18 pm

thawk wrote:
carrmillus wrote:
thawk wrote:
Especially looking at this JPG, with the shade of tan, I'm about 90% sure it is bone, even though it has more of a delrin jigging look. It has a natural color and shine that tells me bone.
thawk, they are definitely bone, that's about the only thing i'm definitely sure about on this knife!
Mike, could you check the closed length on this knife? Is it 3 3/8", 3 1/2", or 3 5/8". Seems like that master blade is shorter than the clip blade on a 72.

Thanks!

thawk, it's 3 5/8"-it is identical to the #72 pattern as far as shape and length.the blade is about 3/16" shorter than a #72, and it doesn't have the match striker pull. it could be the same blade that's in the #14 jacknife. i also have an older 4 line half whittler thats 3 3/4" and a little different shape than the #72-has a bowtie shield, and the primary blade is a spear. i sent dale photos of it, also, maybe he will post them later-i've never seen another one like it, either.

carrmillus · Post by **carrmillus** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:19 pm

thawk wrote:
carrmillus wrote:
thawk wrote:
Especially looking at this JPG, with the shade of tan, I'm about 90% sure it is bone, even though it has more of a delrin jigging look. It has a natural color and shine that tells me bone.
thawk, they are definitely bone, that's about the only thing i'm definitely sure about on this knife!
Mike, could you check the closed length on this knife? Is it 3 3/8", 3 1/2", or 3 5/8". Seems like that master blade is shorter than the clip blade on a 72.

Thanks!

thawk, just pulled my #14 jacknife out of the display-the blade is identical to the blade marked #14 in the half whittler, except that the one in the jacknife has a nice swedge-dale may be right-this could be a "lunchbox special" some guy at the factory made out of parts from different knives-sure would like to know for sure if it's 1 of 1??????...........

travman · Post by **travman** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:53 am

I believe what you have is a Sword Brand #238 it is listed
in the 1928 Sword Brand pages i listed page 404 center row
second from bottom.
Two blades ,large clip and small pen
brass lined,nickle silver bolsters and shield
length 3-5/8" stag handle $13.35 per dozen
I believe that the main blade had been replaced at some time
maybe a factory replacement?

Trav

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